Global Tensions in Light of Biblical Prophecy – Program 6

By: Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, Dr. Elwood McQuaid, Dr. Renald Showers; ©1999

Daniel 7 speaks about a coming federation of nations which will come about in the future. Does the European Union fit Daniel’s description?

Contents

Is the Emergence of the European Union the Predicted Revived Roman Empire?

Introduction

Today on The John Ankerberg Show, we will examine “Global Tensions in Light of Biblical Prophecy” with my guests: international journalist Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, presently living and reporting from Jerusalem, Israel; Dr. Renald Showers, Professor of Biblical Prophecy; and Dr. Elwood McQuaid, Director of Friends of Israel and an expert on the issues dividing Islam, Israel, and the Western World. Today’s topic: “Is the emergence of the European Union the predicted revived Roman Empire?” How do these events tie into other future events the Bible says will come about? Where do the Scriptures teach that a bloc of nations will unite in the future along the geographical lines of the old Roman Empire? Are those prophecies being fulfilled today by the emergence of the European Union? We invite you to join us.

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Ankerberg: Dr. Showers, I want to come to you tonight and ask you a question, and that is, the Bible talks not only about global events that are going to take place in terms of Russia, Israel; but it talks about this power bloc of countries, the European confederacy, some call it the revival of the old Roman Empire, alright? Would you show us from Scripture where you find that and what is going to take place with this unified confederacy of nations that are going to be formed in Europe?

Showers: One of the most significant passages of the Word of God related to that, John, is in Daniel 7 where God, some 2500 years ago, gave to the Hebrew prophet Daniel a prophetic dream. And God was mapping out ahead of time the whole future progression of Gentile world power and dominion from Daniel’s day when Babylon was a great world power, right up to the second coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, back to planet Earth.

God portrayed four wild animals coming out of the storm tossed sea. And seas, when used symbolically in the Bible, symbolized the world of nations, primarily Gentile nations. The first one was a winged lion. That represented Babylon which was the power in Daniel’s day. The next one was a large lopsided bear. That symbolized Medo-Persia that eventually conquered Babylon in 539 B.C. The third one was a four-headed, four-winged leopard, which symbolized ahead of time the Grecian kingdom that conquered Medo-Persia by 331 B.C. And then the fourth beast was a non-descript beast. It was so powerful and overwhelmingly destruction, there was no living animal upon the face of the earth that would be an appropriate representation of this fourth kingdom. That represented the Roman kingdom which conquered the Grecian kingdom by 146 B.C.

Daniel watched that fourth beast and he noted it had 10 horns upon its head, and he indicated later on in that chapter he was curious. He wanted to know more about those ten horns. There was an interpreting angel that God sent together with that dream to Daniel and the interpreting angel, in verse 23, said to Daniel, “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth which shall be different from all kingdoms and shall devour the whole earth and shall tread it down and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise” —future tense.

That language implied that the Roman Empire kingdom would go through at least two stages of history. One would be the beastly conquering stage with overwhelming destructive power. That was certainly true of the ancient Roman Empire. The western half of that ancient Roman Empire lasted for almost 1,000 years. But then there would be a second stage—the ten-king stage. The implication is that sometime in the future, the Roman Empire would consist of ten divisions with ten equal co-rulers ruling those ten divisions at the same time. Basically, a federation of divisions with ten co-rulers at the same time.

If you really study the history of the ancient Roman Empire, never did the ancient Roman Empire consist of ten divisions with ten equal co-rulers at the same time. And because it was never true of Rome in the past, we’re forced to conclude that form of the Roman Empire has not been on the face of the earth yet, but it will be here sometime in the future beyond the time we’re living now.

As you know, the Western half of the ancient Roman Empire with its capital city of Rome fell to barbarian tribes in 476 A.D. Ever since that time, key Western European leaders have had the dream of someday reviving the Roman Empire. And you have the man who was the great king of the Franks, Charlemagne. People thought he was going to revive the Roman Empire. In fact, on Christmas Day, 800 A.D., the pope crowned him Emperor of the Romans.

Then, in the next century, a German ruler, Otto I, founded what he called, “The Holy Roman Empire.” That lasted in name from 932 until 1806 when Napoleon crushed it. Napoleon dreamed of reviving the Roman Empire. In fact, when he was crowned emperor, he put the gold wreath of leaves the Roman emperors wore upon his head and he made the statement, “I am a Roman emperor in the best line of the Caesars.” But then his dream was crushed when he was defeated at Waterloo.

Bismarck of Germany, after he conquered France, announced that the foundation of a new empire and he appointed Wilhelm I the ruler of that. He gave Wilhelm the title “Kaiser” which was the German word for Caesar. They thought they were going to revive the Roman Empire but then they were defeated by Allied Forces and the Armistice was signed on November 11, 1918.

Between World War I and World War II Western leaders had the dream or reviving it. Even Winston Churchill had that dream. In February of 1930, he published an article in the Saturday Evening Post magazine here in the United States. The title of the article was, “The United States of Europe.” And Winston Churchill advocated that the nations of Western Europe should form a federation together for the sake of influence in the world and mutual peace among themselves, a federation that, he said, could be called, “The United States of Europe.” And on it went. And even after World War II, you have Western European leaders holding that dream.

The question is, is there a significant prospect looming on the horizon right now in Europe that can fulfill the prophecy God gave to Daniel in Daniel 7 and also the dream that Western European leaders have had of reviving that Roman Empire? Well, on March 25, 1957, leaders of six Western European nations gathered on the Palatine Hill in the City of Rome and founded what we’ve come to know during our lifetime as the Common Market, now called the European Union. When they started that, key Western European leaders expressed the hope that eventually this economic system would develop into a federation that could be called “The United States of Europe.” And it looks as if that’s the direction the European Union is heading right now.

Early in this decade there was a secular documentary published all across the nation of Canada on the direction that Europe is heading with what we now know as the European Union. They entitled that documentary, “Birth of a Superstate.” They went to Western Europe. They interviewed politicians, historians, and economists of the member nations of the European Union on what they believed was going to develop out of the European Union. Fascinating. One of those Western European leaders said this: “A new empire is taking shape.”

Another Western European leader said, “The world will never be the same.”

Another one said, “This is the beginning of a whole new epoch of world history.”

And the documentary concluded that if this Union is established the way they are planning it to be established, as you had indicated earlier, that Europe, through the European Union, could become the greatest economic power in all the history of the world, even greater than the economic power of the United States right now. And they also concluded that Europe, as a result of the European Union, will be the superstate of the 21^st Century that will challenge the rest of the world. They will also develop great military power and influence in the world as well.

Ankerberg: Jimmy, the New York Times said, when Western Europe became a single economic market, it linked 345 million people, at that time in 12 nations, limiting tariffs and customs barriers. People said the gross domestic product of these countries—now we’re up to 18 of them—is going to far surpass that of the United States. They’re saying that for the next hundred years, the standard currency in the world is going to be the Euro, not the American dollar.

Alright, we’re going to have an economic bloc here that’s going to be like nothing we’ve ever seen before. But I want to go further than that. The Bible says that out of this confederacy, this strong bloc of nations that are going to be the money wielders, if you want, the power brokers in the world, the Bible is saying there’s going to be a political genius, a leader that’s going to come out of there, that’s going to do horrible things in the world. Tell us about it. Describe this. What does the Bible say?

DeYoung: Well, you know, the Euro Dollar is that which is going to help gel the European economic community and then once that is established, you move to a political apparatus and a military United States of Europe. When you have that, then this, according to the book of Daniel chapter 7, this “little horn” comes out among the ten horns. The “little horn,” the Antichrist, this world leader. He comes on the scene. Well, we’re seeing everything gelling. We’re seeing the revived Roman Empire or at least the infrastructure for it in place as we sit here during this television program. And we see everything ready for the Antichrist to come on the scene.

Deception on every hand. Jesus said on the Mount of Olives, “I’ll tell you what it’s going to be like at the time of the end. Deception will run rampant. In fact,” He said, “signs, wonders, and miracles will usher in this world ruler.” We see a proliferation of signs, wonders, and miracles. In Matthew 24 Jesus said it on the Mount of Olives. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul said it to the people of Thessalonica. In Revelation chapters 13 and 16, John the Apostle told those who would read Revelation that at the time when you see signs, wonders, and miracles prevalent….” I didn’t say that God can’t still perform miracles. God is Sovereign and He can do whatever He wants to. But the Bible tells us Satan can perform miracles and he’s going to use these signs, wonders, and miracles to set the scene for this one world ruler to come out of the revived Roman Empire and establish a relationship with the Jewish people, albeit a pseudo-relationship which will ultimately bring him to his destruction.

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Ankerberg: Well, I can hear people talking, Rennie, and they’re saying, “Hey, you guys are talking about the European Union like it is that, and, hey, they’ve got 18 countries involved in there and doesn’t the Bible talk about ten?” What’s happening here?

Showers: John, it says the number ten both in Daniel 7 and also Revelation 17. But here’s an interesting thing. In 1989, in one of the October issues of Forbes magazine, a secular business magazine here in America, there was a two-page advertisement in there by a German banking firm. And they were talking about the direction that Europe is heading with this common economic system. And what they said was this. That once the system is fully operational, they are going to do away with nation states and they’re going to reorganize a Europe in that system into regions rather than nations. And so in light of that, I’m prone to think the number ten in Daniel 7 and Revelation 17 is not a reference to nations, it’s a reference to ten regions that will develop there eventually through that particular system.

Ankerberg: Elwood, you’ve been with the leadership in Israel recently, and right now they are looking toward the United States for support and to kind of protect them in world politics. How is this going to switch over to the European confederacy? Why would that happen? How will that link-up be made, in your estimation, between them and Israel?

McQuaid: Yes, well, one of the things we’re seeing now is an erosion of will—if you want to put it that way—in the United States, our leadership particularly. We see what’s gone on in the Iraqi situation. We have mobilized our forces. We have spent billions upon billions of dollars to get those people in place because we said we were going to bring Saddam Hussein to heel and do whatever it took militarily. At one junction we said, “No more diplomacy! Now is the time to strike!” Both times we have backed off.

What we really have done in both of those instances recently is hand off to the United Nations; first to Kofi Annan who went to Saddam Hussein, the biggest terrorist in the world, and said, “I’ll promise him anything he asks for to get the United States to back off.” That does two things: that erodes the morale of our people who defend this country. It makes a tyrant like Saddam Hussein look like a king among his own people. He has more prestige, more power now because he has backed the United States down over and over again.

Now, when this Euro Dollar comes into play, our economic clout is going to deteriorate, I believe, to the point where the United States is going to have to make a decision. Look, are we going to go it alone or are we going to get in on this through agreements and make the best deal we can? When we look at “lifestyle lying” now in the United States that has been sanctified in the highest places of the land, we recognize the fact that a society that is not based on truth and the rule of law will not long survive.

So we have some very dangerous warning signs that are right before us today that say the United States is diminishing in power; it’s diminishing in will; it’s diminishing in its economic security and what we’re living now by, frankly, is the idea that anything goes in America as long as the money is right. Well, when the money is no longer right, I see very serious problems for us; and that Europe coming on now, the balance is going this way.

Ankerberg: Add to that, Rennie, a little bit in terms of, what’s going to bring the political leader in Europe to protect Israel when actually many of the people in Europe right now could care less about Israel.

Showers: Well, John, I believe that one of the motivations again will be that Europe depends on oil from the Middle East. And Western Europe is going to want to have that pipeline open continuously because with a mechanized society, it can’t survive without that. I really believe that Antichrist will also notice the strategic location of Israel there in the Middle East. You know, the ancient world called that land “the navel of the earth,” the center of the earth. It was no mistake that God planted that nation there, and it is no mistake He is going to have it there as the political and religious center of the world in the future Millennium.

Israel, that land, is in the most strategic geographical location on the face of the earth. It’s the crossroads of three of the world’s great continents: Africa, Asia, and Europe. And Antichrist, as a very brilliant and intelligent man, will see the strategic value of having an alliance with that land and eventually taking control of it and setting up his headquarters there. So I think for economic reasons with oil, etc., plus the other resources that are there, plus also just the strategic geographical significance of that location of the earth, is going to motivate him to want to have a tie-in and even control there.

Ankerberg: Yes, Jimmy, in light of what he’s saying, you were telling me something about Israel and oil that was absolutely fascinating. Would you share that with us?

DeYoung: Well, the fact is that there has been a recent discovery at the southern end of the Dead Sea where they have been able to dig down far enough to realize the world’s greatest potential oil—by the way, “potential,” understand what I said—oil deposit in all of history is there. It’s called “deep stick oil.” It’s the bottom of the barrel. It’s the very best there is. But let me just say something. Now what I said was, at the very southern end of the Dead Sea. That’s the lowest spot on the face of the earth. The Dead Sea is 1300 feet below sea level. Here you have Iraq, you have Iran, you have Saudi Arabia, all these oil producing countries, and if you take a soda and stick a straw in it from the top and start sucking from the bottom, the oil over here starts…. You get the point. When they put that oil well in on the southern end of the Dead Sea and they start bringing that oil out and all the oil in the ground in the great oil deposits in these other countries are going to drain right to the bottom of the barrel. And Israel could have the greatest oil producing area in all of history right there at the southern end of the Dead Sea.

Ankerberg: Rennie, in light of what we’ve been talking about, some people that are non-Christians might be listening and say, “What does Jesus Christ have to do with all of these events? Where does He figure in?”

Showers: According to the Word of God, Jesus Christ is the One who, during the Tribulation Period, will initiate the three series of judgments of God’s wrath upon Satan’s domain here on planet earth which are going to bring awesome, awesome destruction to this earth. Just one of those judgments alone will wipe out one-fourth of the world’s population. And that’s one of the less severe of the judgments that Christ is going to loose upon the earth. As He begins to bombard Satan’s domain, tear down his kingdom rule, then He will come to earth after the Tribulation in His glorious Second Coming and finish the crushing of the forces of Satan.

By the way, several passages make it very clear that by the end of the Tribulation Period, all the Gentile nations of the world will have their armies there in the land of Israel. We noted earlier that Satan wants them there to try to annihilate Israel before they repent. But they will sweep across that land, bringing destruction. Zechariah 14 says they will come up and completely surround the city of Jerusalem, will be in the process of destroying that city systematically when Christ will appear in His glorious Second Coming in the heavens. The one-third remnant of Jewish people that are left, seeing Him, will change their mind with regard to Him, will repent. They will receive Him, put their trust in Him as their Messiah and Savior. And Zechariah 14 says that’s when the Lord will go to battle once Israel repents. He will annihilate those forces and destroy them, then get rid of Satan, bind him, cast him into the abyss for a thousand years. And then Jesus, as the last Adam, will restore God’s theocratic kingdom and as God’s earthly representative will rule the world on behalf of God for one thousand years.

Interestingly, in light of the biblical prophecies to the effect that all the Gentile nations of the world will have their armies there surrounding Jerusalem at the time of the Second Coming, a totally secular non-government intelligence service, in light of all the trends we’ve been talking about in all these sessions, has drawn this conclusion. This is what’s going to happen. And they say they’re not religious. They’re not looking at the Scriptures for this. They say, “It is therefore on the platform of Palestine and at the gates of Jerusalem that the present epic will face its ultimate drama.”

That’s exactly what the Word of God is saying! Because it is going to be on the platform of Palestine and at the gates of Jerusalem that all the armies of the Gentile world will have that city surrounded, systematically destroying it, that’s when God’s Son Jesus Christ will come out of Heaven and that’s when He’s going to decimate those forces. So it will indeed be in that land at the gates of Jerusalem that the present epic will face its ultimate drama.

Ankerberg: Jimmy, how can a person come into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

DeYoung: John, that’s as easy as ABC. Admit that you’re a sinner. I had to one day when I was eleven years old. I admitted that I needed Christ. Then I believed in His death, burial and resurrection and the statement that He made, “I will save you if you will call upon me.” And that’s the third thing I had to do: Call upon Jesus Christ to come into my heart and life. You can do it. It’s as simple as A – admitting that you need Christ; B – believing that He can save you; and C – calling upon Him to do that. And once you know Him, we need to tell the rest of the world before it’s eternally too late for them.

Ankerberg: I certainly agree. Next week I hope that you’ll join us because we’re going to talk about questions from our audience right here, one of which will be: Will Yasser Arafat proclaim Palestine to be an independent nation/state on May 4, 1999 as he claims that he will? And we’re also going to talk about why is Islamic fundamentalism the biggest danger our world faces according to secular sources? I hope that you’ll join us.

Primakov, the Prime Minister of Russia, right now, and some of the things that he has arranged with some of the Muslim states that are down near Israel. What other deals do you know that have actually been made that ties Russia to these states if war were to break out? Jimmy, start us off.

DeYoung: Foreign Minister Primakov—that was his title prior to becoming Prime Minister—had a great relationship with the Arab world: Egypt; Iraq; Iran; Syria; all the nations that are basically going to be coming against Israel in the last days. He played a key role during the Gulf Crisis in trying to defuse the coalition of states headed up by the United States that were coming against Saddam Hussein to try to remove him from the Middle East. So, Primakov and his relationship to the Arab world, the Islamic world, is of much concern for those who are biblical students of prophecy and understand what’s going to happen in the last days.

We were talking about, in Ezekiel 38 it says when Israel is a location of “unwalled cities.” I can tell you this: during the Gulf Crisis, it was a period of time—the first time in 4,000 years of history—when the Jewish people did not retaliate when they were under attack. And in fact, the United States sent in the Patriot Missiles, that was supposedly protecting the Jewish people. I personally talked with Moshe Arens who, at the time of the Gulf Crisis, was the Minister of Defense. He said there was one SCUD knocked out of the sky, out of 39, by a Patriot. So there was really no protection for the Jewish people, but their mind set was, “America is taking care of us.” I think that developed in the minds of the Jewish people in anticipation of what’s going to happen when there are unwalled cities. Primakov played a key role in pulling Russia and these other nations together in the relationships they’ve developed over the years, getting into a position for that attack.

Ankerberg: Yeah. Public Television actually did a special that I saw a couple of months ago that was shocking in what it portrayed, and that was exactly what you just said: that our Patriots did not work as advertised. George Bush was taking the credit, but actually the people in Israel were really making a lot of noise and saying, “Look, you’ve got to get these things to work.” They’d hit the SCUDs in the middle, not in the warhead area, and the fact is, that warhead would come down and it would go off, and they knew that. And why Israel did not go and protect themselves, this Public Television documentary couldn’t even tell you the reason why.

DeYoung: They were ready. The F-16’s were on the runway. The canopies were down. The pilots were in the aircraft. The engines were running. The foot was on the brake. They were ready to take off in an instant, but they did not. It’s the first time in 4,000 years of history. And I believe we’ve moved into the era when they’re going to be willing to have a city of unwalled protection around them.

Ankerberg: Yes. Elwood, we’re coming to you now. And the fact is that we’re talking about Israel in light of these things the Bible is going to talk about. And here we are, sitting here talking about it like it’s not really important. It’s in our lifetime; it’s in our world! What other deals have been made, while we have been existing even, that Russia has made with some of these Islamic countries that surround Israel that the Bible says eventually are going to join together with Russia and invade Israel?

McQuaid: Well, one of the problems that we have is that we have been so inundated by our affluence that it has inoculated us against the realities of the world. We are not, in America, living in the real world. If you go to the Middle East and if you look at these alliances that have been made between Russia and the rogue Islamic nations, you can certainly put Iran in that category. They have made agreements and alliances with them about building nuclear reactors; about assisting them in long-range missiles; assisting them in developing the capability for weapons of mass destruction.

They have been the protector, vocally and really almost vehemently, of Saddam Hussein, warning the United States not to attack. At one point saying, “If you do, it may jeopardize our relationship to the point that you’ll have a military confrontation with Russia.” They’re working to get the sanctions lifted. And this is the most dangerous man, in many respects, on the planet right now.

They are in league with the Syrians. The Syrians are the great protectors of the most militant, violent terrorist organizations. They harbor them. They finance them. They pipeline money to them; and Russian weapons that are by agreement given to the Syrians, knowing what’s going to happen.

They are collaborators with the Sudan, the Sudan that is Islamicizing that nation in such a violent way that over a million Christians have been starved to death or slaughtered in that country—and Russia is in league with them.

So, if you just walk around the Middle East, Russia is trying to reassert today what they fashioned before the Soviet Union fell when they were the chief arms supplier for every nation or organization that was opposed to the existence of the state of Israel.

Ankerberg: Rennie, take us back to the Bible again for folks that missed last week’s session, alright? When are we saying that Russia is going to come down into the Middle East? When is that going to happen and how does it relate to the time period we’re living in right now?

Showers: Well, we saw before, John, from Ezekiel 38, that this is going to happen when Israel feels very safe and secure. And we know that’s not true right now exactly. But Antichrist, the head of the future revived Roman Empire from Europe, at the beginning of the seven-year Tribulation period, is going to bring about a covenant relationship with Israel. The Hebrew language there is very strong. It even seems to imply, according to some Hebrew scholars, he’s going to enforce this covenant relationship with Israel. And during the first half of that seven-year Tribulation, according to Daniel 9:27, he will be Israel’s protector and benefactor. But in the middle of the seven-year Tribulation he will break that covenant relationship, will turn against Israel, and will desolate it severely during the second half.

So, it would appear that it’s only during the first half of that seven-year Tribulation that Israel will feel so safe and secure it will let down its own guard militarily and depend upon someone else to defend it. In light of that, we conclude that this attack by Russia and its Islamic allies against Israel will take place during the first half of the Tribulation, probably just before the middle of the seven-year Tribulation period.

Ankerberg: How close, Rennie, do you think we are to the events of the Tribulation?

Showers: Well, John, when you look at everything the prophetic Scriptures say is going to happen—and we’ve been looking at a lot during these sessions—and you look at the trends that have been related in these sessions, you cannot help but feel that the Tribulation is not that very far down the road.

Ankerberg: Summarize the trends that hit your mind as you’ve been talking. Summarize those trends for us. Some of the people haven’t heard all the things that we’ve said, so summarize it briefly for us.

Showers: Well, a revived Roman Empire, we believe is the European Union, right now is moving in that direction. Again, these things we’ve just related with regard to Russia and Islamic nations, the way that they’ve been developing in the Middle East; and some of the very bold statements that some of the radical militant Muslim leaders of the Islamic nations have made, that their ultimate goal is the total annihilation of Israel from the Middle East. Other things we’ve been talking about, how the Palestinians had promised to keep peace agreements with Israel. They say that to the rest of the world, but to their own people they keep talking about Jihad, holy war, that the only solution to the Israel problem is to annihilate them from the face of the earth. We’ve seen how they’re training children of grade school age with a mind set of devoting themselves to Jihad, holy war against Israel, carrying out terrorist activities whenever they’re old enough to do that type of thing. We see all these things seemingly to be converging upon the world at the same time. And, again, it seems that the world is moving clearly in the direction that God says will be true of planet earth in the future seven-year Tribulation.

Ankerberg: Yes, so in essence, if the Tribulation culminates with Christ coming to earth to set up His Millennial Kingdom and destroying His enemies at that time and rescuing Israel, let’s say that’s Christmas. If we can see some of the events that are leading up to that, we all know Thanksgiving is a lot earlier. And we believe that the Rapture, Christ calling the Church off of earth before the Tribulation, will precede it. So if we can see events, namely of the Tribulation, starting to form around us, then what would you say about the Rapture?

Showers: Well, we believe the Rapture will take place before the Tribulation begins and so if you see things moving in the direction of prophetic fulfillments of events of the future Tribulation period, that says the Rapture is going to happen before those things are fulfilled. So that would seem to say the Rapture is very close.

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Ankerberg: Let me stick, Jimmy, with this thing of Israel and the radical Islamic states that are around Israel at the present time and this hookup that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is making. The other night, just before we did this program, on NBC News, the UN Arms Inspector that left his job deliberately because he thought that America was not doing the job we needed to do inspecting the weapons in Iraq, okay? He is now a commentator of NBC News. He made this statement, alright? This is after the peace treaty now was signed. He’s talking about the guys going in and inspecting and looking for the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam Hussein has got, alright? And he says, “If the UN inspectors do not search diligently and find the weapons of mass destruction” that he believes are there, “then in five years we will have a major problem.” Now, he said, “In five years we will have a major problem in the Middle East when Saddam Hussein starts a war and uses them.” What do you think?

DeYoung: I think he’s right on target. As you study the Scriptures, and as I understand, for example, Jeremiah 50 and 51, the destruction of biblical Babylon, which is modern-day Iraq, takes place and it’s completely wiped off the face of the earth basically. It’s like Sodom and Gomorrah. Then you go over to the book of Revelation, chapter 16, the seventh vial judgment is the destruction of the city of Babylon. You go to chapter 18 which I understand chapter 18 of Revelation to say is an economic power that’s headquartered in Babylon. The literal city of Babylon as we speak is being refurbished right there where it was in biblical times on the Euphrates River, not very far from the Euphrates and Tigris where they come together and flow into the Persia Gulf.

So, if God’s Word, as I understand it, is saying that at the end of this Tribulation period that we’ve been talking about, this seven-year period of terrible, terrible judgments upon the face of the earth and upon the people that live on the earth, if the culmination is that, before the Battle of Armageddon, before all the other nations gather, the destruction of Iraq or what we know as biblical Babylon, we are right on target to go along with what this analysis of this weapons inspector was, that in about five or seven years Saddam Hussein or whoever the leader of Iraq is—he can be off the scene—but whoever the leader of Iraq is, is going to come into a position where they’re going to go after Israel and God’s going to finish them off totally.

Ankerberg: When Hillary Clinton on radio said May 6 from Washington to a gathering of Arab and Israeli students in Switzerland, she said that she supports the eventual creation of an independent Palestinian state, how did that go down in Israel?

DeYoung: The Israeli body politick was very much concerned, because you see, the official stand of the Israeli government right now is, “No Palestinian State.” The opportunity to have autonomy over their areas—that’s the Palestinian Authority’s responsibility. Israel is moving to accomplish that. In the final status talks they will give them even more autonomy in the areas that they are now in control of with their administrative and legislative bodies. But when Mrs. President—or, excuse me, Hillary Clinton…. Freudian slip, but it proves my point. I did it on purpose to say that here, the President’s wife making almost an official pronouncement of the policy of the United States of America and making that statement against a people who are trying to exist, coexist peacefully, but realizing that the terrorists want to rid that region of the world of even their existence as it is today.

I’m talking about Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, who want to come in and rid the Middle East of the Jewish people and they say put a Palestinian State up right in the middle? Divide the people, divide the land of Israel? Give back that which God gave to the Jewish people? He promised to give them all of it. He’s started to give them some of it. Maybe they’ll get it all in the Millennial Kingdom, but now start to give it back? Well, that was an irritant in the soul of the body politick of Israel as well as in the leadership of Israel. It should never have been said. Somebody outside of Israel has no right to tell the Israel people what they must do, and that’s what it seems like she was doing.

Ankerberg: Elwood, what do you think would happen if we actually did form this Palestinian State in the near future?

McQuaid: Well, I can tell you, just a few days ago I was in the office of the Prime Minister in Jerusalem and spent about an hour talking with his primary aide about this very problem. And, you know, here in the West and particularly in the United States, we are being told that if they allow the Palestinians a sovereign state, all of our problems will go away and there will be true peace in the Middle East.

You see, there’s a difference, a very serious difference, between saying, “We’re going to allow autonomy, we’re going to allow a limited sovereignty”—Israel says they can live with that—but if a Palestinian State has total sovereignty, they can make their own military alliances. If they wanted to bring in 100,000 Iraqi troops, they could do it. Nobody could say anything about it. If they wanted to build a great military infrastructure with weapons—and we have to remember that if they get what they want, the middle of the state of Israel will be eight to nine miles wide from the Palestinian State to the Mediterranean Sea. They can easily reach any point in Israel.

So what Israel is saying is that we cannot, absolutely cannot have a Palestinian State that has total sovereignty, because leadership is known by the friends it keeps. And who are the friends of Yasser Arafat? The most radical terrorists, militant groups and rogue nations in the Middle East. So Israel says, “We cannot allow total sovereignty. It just can’t happen.”

Ankerberg: Jimmy, this would seem to say, these events that we are seeing in our own lifetime that the Bible says are going to come about during the Tribulation time period, the time when the Lord comes back and takes Christians home to Heaven, has got to be soon. In light of that, what would you say to non-Christians and Christians that are listening tonight?

DeYoung: Never before in history, John, has it been exactly like it is today, indicating that the return of Jesus Christ could even be today. And in light of that, how then do we live?

Well, if you don’t know Christ as Lord and Savior, my exhortation to you, the Word of God’s exhortation, the Word of God says we must turn to Jesus Christ, a Messiah, a Savior, who washes us from sin and cleanses us and prepares us to meet our God for eternity. And then we who know Christ as Lord and Savior, we need to be at the task of living pure in light of His soon coming but being productive to tell as many as we possibly can of the soon coming of Jesus Christ and that we must all make preparation for that time.

Read Part 7