End-Time Events According to the Bible – Program 2

By: Dave Hunt, Hal Lindsey and Dr. David Breese; ©1992

What does the Bible say is going to happen in and to Israel in the future?

Contents

The Nation of Israel

Introduction

The eyes of all Americans as well as the world are focused on President-Elect Bill Clinton’s plans for change. Time magazine states: “With all that is at stake and with all the hope that America has invested in him, Clinton can scarcely afford to prove unequal to his task.” If Clinton fails and has a one-term presidency, it would suggest to many that government cannot cope with our problems and that the American economy is sliding toward certain decline. Meanwhile, one Congressman has said, “The world will not stop just because we have a new president.” Boris Yeltsin heads toward a possible overthrow by hardliners frustrated with his rule. North Korea is suspected of developing a nuclear weapons capability. And China’s arms buildup is causing concern in the rest of Asia. The German defense minister has warned America not to forget the turmoil in the former Soviet republics, three of which still have nuclear weapons on their soil. And now that Baker and Bush are gone, what will happen to the Middle East peace talks?

Where are all of these world events leading? Do they parallel the prophetic picture of history outlined in the Bible? My three guests today are all best-selling authors and internationally known Bible scholars. They are Hal Lindsey, Dr. David Breese and Dave Hunt. We invite you to join us.

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Ankerberg: Welcome! We’re coming to you from Kansas City and our guests are Dr. David Breese, Hal Lindsey, and Dave Hunt. And we’re talking about what the Bible has to say in predictions about the events that would signal Jesus Christ’s return to earth would be near. What’s going to take place when He does come back? What leads up to it? The Bible has a lot to say about that, and one of the very proofs that God has given us accurate information is the nation of Israel.

And we’d like to spend our time tonight talking about Israel, what the Bible says is going to happen to this country in the days ahead. And Dave Hunt, start us off by giving us a synopsis, if you would, a brief capsule of what God has said in the past about Israel and bring us up to the present and then we’ll go from there.

Hunt: Well, you would have to go back to Genesis 12 to begin, where God chose a man called Abram, took him out of Ur of the Chaldeans, out of occultism and paganism and idolatry and promised that he would make of him a great nation and said that, “In thee and in thy seed all the nations of the earth will be blessed” [Gen. 26:4] and right there at the very beginning God said, “I will bless him that blesses you and I will curse him that curses you.” [Gen. 12:1-3]

A lot of curse has been thrown out on the Jews, on Israel, down through history, anti-Semitism, which we may have time to get into. Why? Because it would be through Israel that the Messiah would come. And Israel is the centerpiece of God’s prophetic timetable and it’s the main topic of everything that God talks about. So, Satan tried to destroy the Jews so there could be no Messiah. Even after Jesus defeated Satan on the cross, if he could still destroy the Jews today…. What was behind Hitler? What’s been behind the pogroms and the Holocaust and so forth? If Satan could destroy Israel – this is how important Israel is – he would at least have a stalemate with God, because God could not fulfill His prophecies. Because the prophecies of the end times are all about Israel, as Hal has said, being back in her land and the Messiah will return to Israel and if the Messiah couldn’t return to Israel there would be no prophecies to fulfill.

Now, God said, He said it many times, Hal referred to “a time of great trouble,” Jeremiah 30:7. He calls it “the time of Jacob’s trouble.” And God warns that He’s going to punish Israel for her rejection of Him, her rejection of the Messiah, for her turning away from Him in disobedience and rebellion down through history. The time of Jacob’s trouble is coming – the great tribulation. But, He says in that same chapter, “Though I make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven you, yet will I not make a full end of you.” [Jer. 30:11] “And I will remember you, I will remember the land.” In Jeremiah 31, I know some of Hal’s favorite verses there, God says something like this: Look, if the sun is still in the sky, the moon is still up there, the stars are still up there, the tides are still going, then Israel will not cease from being a nation before Me and I will bring them back and they will be reborn in their land. [Jer. 31:35-40]

As I said last week, you can’t be an atheist; not only that, you’d better take God seriously because He said more than that. He talks about something that we must do personally in receiving this Messiah that came through Israel.

Ankerberg: Before we get to you, Hal, let me talk to Dave. Last time we were together, right after the Gulf War, and at that time they were talking about the peace treaty that would begin. And I asked you the question, I said, “Do you think that the Jews would ever give up land for peace?” And at that time you made the statement that I think has been written down in a lot of books that “Israel would give up land for peace when shrimp learn to whistle.” Apparently, shrimp are learning to whistle because Israel now has a government in there that is going to, or is talking about giving up land for peace. What’s taken place in just a short year of time that this attitude has switched?

Breese: Yes, I’m glad you used the word “talking,” John. We have to remember the position of the nation of Israel. Israel is a narrow sliver of land which, if the so-called “occupied lands” were retaken by the Arabs, that land will be only 16 to 18 miles wide, which is nothing in the days of jet warfare. A narrow sliver of land, 4 million people surrounded by one billion of the Arab/Muslim world, all of them characterized by tremendous hostility.

In fact, the leaders of the Arab world, Saddam Hussein being one of them, who every morning when he gets up says, “What might I do today to destroy the nation of Israel?” He has said in recent days that “the mother of all battles is not finished yet,” meaning he still has dire intentions on Israel and the world. It is a characteristic of the Islamic faith. In fact, you cannot be a practicing member of Islam without believing that it is the destiny of Allah that the Islamic faith shall destroy the nation of Israel, capture the whole world, be the master of earth. It is very, very utopian. They’re going to take over the world.

Now, in the face of this, I have made the statement that Israel must not give up land, which is a real thing, for peace, which is a possible hypothetical promise. We don’t know what a promise of peace means in the Middle East, but I would concur that there’s been a very ominous development take place within recent weeks and that is that Israel has chosen a liberal government. And Peres has said that he will negotiate with leaders of the Arab world. He’s already been to Egypt and in my opinion playing a very dangerous game, because the Arabs look at a sanguine attitude on the part of the leaders of the people of Israel as weakness. They have no intention whatsoever in the next thousand years of ever living and getting along on a peace equilibrium with the land of Israel. So the danger of Israel being destroyed is there at any given moment.

Even now, there’s a jet aircraft, an F15, at every major field in the nation of Israel with a nuclear weapon on board ready to retaliate. They’ve said the next SCUD missile will be the last one. So I will hold that Israel, while it is still sane, will never give up land for peace, because that would be, in a sense, committing suicide for this land.

But the new developments may force Israel to look for a new friend. Will that friend be the United States? Maybe. But “maybe” is not good enough for the nation of Israel. They’ve got to have “Yes.” Where must they look? The leadership of an emergent Europe. And so the possibility of a covenant between the Israelis and the leader of Europe who will finally be the Antichrist has grown more real, more likely, with each day that passes.

Ankerberg: Hal Lindsey, you’ve been to Israel over 50 times, and you’ve got contacts in the Israeli government, in the military; you keep up with the latest inside information. What can you tell us about the new Israeli government, the occupied territories, and relate this to the Bible. Why is this so important that we’re talking about with Israel and how does this relate to Scripture? I think we’re leaving that out for the folks that are listening.

Lindsey: Well, there are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world and there’s only one thing that unifies them. They disagree over many things, but they all agree that they must liberate Jerusalem and destroy Israel. There’s one book that determines what Muslims are going to do, and that’s the Qur’an. It’s a matter of Qur’anic doctrine that they cannot tolerate the state of Israel to stay in control there.

There was a position paper prepared by the Pentagon a few years ago that outlined the minimal land that Israel had to have to defend itself. It included the Golan Heights and all of the West Bank. It included some of the Sinai, but that’s been given away. Now, Israel says right now that if they give up a good part of the West Bank and some part of the Golan Heights, they will no longer be able to defend themselves by conventional weapons. This means that they will have to go nuclear at the very outset of any hostility. And there’s another very frightening thing. Israel knows that they cannot take a nuclear hit from even one missile and survive. So that means they can’t wait till the other side hits first, they must strike first. That means at the very outset they’ll have to strike with nuclear weapons.

I talked to a Mossad agent who verified that Iran transferred the money to Kazakhstan for three nuclear warheads. Iran now has three operational nuclear warheads. They have formed an axis with Syria, and they see themselves and the ones who will unify the Muslim movement to liberate Jerusalem.

Ankerberg: Yeah, let me just follow up on that. In Newsweek here that I’m holding in my hand of June 22 of this year, they’ve got that in here, “Exiled Iranian dissident leaders insist they’ve got two tactical nuclear warheads were purchased from former Soviet Republic of Kazakhstan.” The other thing it says is, diplomatic sources in Tehran claim that up to 25 scientists from the former Soviet Union have been recruited to work in the Iranian nuclear program.

Lindsey: Well, may I just say that it’s important from the biblical point of view for what Brother Hunt said a while ago. In Zechariah 12:2-3, verses I’ve studied for 30 years, it says, “I will cause all the nations of the world to become burdened over Jerusalem.” It’s going to strike terror. So what is happening with 1.2 billion Muslims bent on liberating it, it’s going to cause the whole world to be in trouble. This is why I believe it’s being set up for the Antichrist to come in and guarantee peace.

Ankerberg: Okay, Dr. Breese, in talking about Israel, the nation of Israel, right now we’ve got a peace conference that is going on. And it looks to me, and a lot of people are optimistic about the fact that there may be a peace agreement between some of Israel’s neighbors and themselves. Talk about that and the significance of even having Israel negotiating for peace in light of Daniel, talking about what’s going to happen in the future. Is this the peace conference that the Bible is talking about, or is this kind of a prelude to what’s coming?

Breese: Well, first of all, John, the peace negotiations that Israel is conducting is an illustration of the fact that Israel is not a viable nation militarily on its own. It must be a surrogate of a larger nation. Now, the nation that has been the mentor for Israel, that has supplied it weapons up until now, has been the United States, really the only friend that Israel has had in the world seriously.

But now, in the minds of the Israelis as they look toward America, they are not as sure of the friendship of America as they were once, and so they must look across the world and they must ask the question, “Who is the emergent power of the world? Is it possible that there is coming to pass a nation or a complex of nations that will represent a power superior to what we have seen in days gone by?” And their conclusion is, they look at the world as it is today, their conclusion in answer to that question is, “Yes.” They are looking north and west to Europe. They predict, as Europe itself predicts, that it is coming together as a “United States of Europe.” When it does, by the way, it will have 325 million people. It will have a gross national product larger than that of the United States. And so it is not that we are surprised when we see that Daniel 9, predicts that Israel will make a covenant with the leader of Europe who is called “the prince that shall come.” That covenant will be a basis on which perhaps many things Europe may do for Israel: help rebuild the temple, build up its armed forces, give it straight financial contributions, and other things.

But as we see today’s scenario, it’s not doing violence to our mind in a sanctified imagination to image these things developing perhaps very soon.

Ankerberg: Hal, people want to bring that question up right off the bat and that is, “Boy, things look awfully peaceful right now.” I mean, for the first time the Arabs and Israel, they’re actually talking to each other and maybe we’ll come to some kind of a peace arrangement.” Do you think that the Bible is still correct in saying the greatest battle of world history, the battle of Armageddon, is still going to be fought there? And what would lead anybody to that conclusion that it actually might happen?

Lindsey: I believe that the Bible is very clear that the last war of the world will start with a war over Jerusalem. And as I look at Ezekiel 38, in fact, I’ve just done a special report called “The Magog Factor,” as I look at Ezekiel 38, virtually all of the allies that are described in chapter 38 of Ezekiel are now Muslim nations.

And according to the Intelligence Digest, a secular intelligence network out of England, they recently said that Russia, the Republic of Russia, will now start making alliances with the Muslim world because they know they will never be fully accepted in Western economics. And so it said they will make alliances with the republics that were once part of the Soviet Union that are now going into alliances with Iran and Turkey, and it says this will draw Russia into the conflict that is most important to the Islamic world which is to liberate Jerusalem. And they predict there will be a nuclear, Russian-led Islamic jihad against Israel before the end of this decade.

Lindsey: And that’s right out of the pages of Ezekiel 38.

Ankerberg: The figures are Azerbaijan has 80% Muslim; Kirgizia 55% Muslim, Uzbekistan 70% Muslim; Tadzhikistan 70% Muslim, and you go right down the list here, overwhelmingly Muslim populations in some of these republics.

Dave Hunt, in your book you talk a lot about the fact that we’re going to have peace before we have this big conflagration. Maybe you could talk a little bit in terms of Israel. The fact is, if a peace treaty is signed, what we should think about that peace treaty; and then, even if you had a peace treaty, what might spark off a great conflagration right there in the Middle East?

Hunt: Well, John, let’s make it clear again to our audience, if they haven’t gotten the message already, this isn’t three sensationalists up here dreaming up scenarios, you know, to excite people. We are talking about what the Bible says, as you have indicated a number of times. And we have a solid basis. We have thousands of years of history that were written ahead of time where God said what would happen. He said what would happen with Israel. So, we’re not dreaming this up. We are simply going on beyond what has been fulfilled to what is yet to be fulfilled. And we’re basing it on the Word of God.

And I think both Hal and Dave have already said there will be peace. Whether shrimps learn to whistle and they give up land for it or not doesn’t really matter. There will be peace. And the whole world is focusing on it. The whole world knows you’ve got to have peace. And there will be a peace treaty. It says in Daniel 8, “Through peace he will destroy many.” [Dan. 8:25]

So, as Hal said, and as you’ve pointed out, the weapons that are being sold into the Middle East, that peace will be very transitory. It will be a delusion. It will be a setup. It will be a trap. Israel, instead of looking to her Messiah, instead of looking to God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who made these promises and who brought her back to her land, is going to look to the arm of flesh. And cursed be the man who puts his trust in man, the prophets have said. And so Israel is going to pay for putting her trust in a human treaty instead of her trust in the Lord.

Ankerberg: The Bible says in Ezekiel 37, “Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations,” God says, “to which they are gone, and will gather them on every side, bring them into their own land, and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel and one King shall be King to them all and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.” [Ezek. 37:21-22] Unfortunately, after Ezekiel 37 comes Ezekiel 38 where war begins when the nation of Israel comes together again.

Now, last time we were together, about a year and a half ago, we talked about the fact of Russia, the power from the north, speculating about the fact of would that be the nation that would come into the Middle East and cause war. Since that time we’ve had the breakup of the Soviet Union. And next week we want to look at, do you fellows still believe that when the Bible says “the power from the north” we’re talking about Russia? And I hope that you’ll join us then.

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