Silva Mind Control – Program 6

By: Jose Silva, Dr. George DeSau, Dave Hunt, Dr. John Weldon; ©1986

Mind control. Fruit inspection, and doing what’s right in your own eyes.

Questions from the Audience – Part 2

Ankerberg: Welcome. We’re examining the Silva Mind Control technique. Six million people have gone through this course that claims that it will develop psychic powers, clairvoyant powers in any person that finishes this course. You’ll be able to tap into higher intelligence in the universe; you’ll function psychically, clairvoyantly. You’ll be taught how to invite counselors or psychic guides into your mind, and that Jesus was sent from God to teach us all of this. This is what we’re talking about. What is the evidence for these claims? We’re to the point in our program where we’re having questions from our audience, so our first question tonight.

Audience: Mr. Silva, I’m a psychiatric nurse, and it’s very interesting to me what you all talk about, getting control of your mind. I’d like to ask what you do with the Bible verse where the Lord says in His Word, “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,” [Phil. 2:5] and let Him control our minds.

Silva: Some of our students have Jesus as their counselors in their inner dimension. They selected Jesus and they are lucky that Jesus appeared for them, and they use Jesus as a consultant. So, nothing wrong here. I mean, especially if they are Christians, you know. You can imagine if Jesus appeared to an atheist, which has happened, too.

Ankerberg: Jose, let me bring up here, do you remember a lady by the name of Johanna Michaelsen that took your course in Mexico City?

Silva: She said she did. We have no record of that.

Ankerberg: Okay. When she was on our program, she told us about the fact of when she invited her spirit guides into her life, she invited Jesus to be one of those spirit guides, and that the end result of her story was that after many years she felt that she had been deceived by this guide impersonating as Jesus. And there came a time in her life when those guides tried to kill her. And it was only the fact of counselors at L’Abri with Francis Schaeffer that helped her in coming to know the real Jesus, the Jesus who is Very God, the One who died on the cross, and the One who had power over all the other “guides” and all the other spirits that were afflicting her at that point.

Now, what I’m saying here is that if you don’t know—and you claim that you don’t know who these guides are, and you don’t know what their source is—and that a student, as you have said in your book, can ask for a specific person in past history or up to date, they can request this person to be their counselor, their guide, but they don’t necessarily get that person. With all of that as background, how can you be so sure that when you ask for Jesus that this is not a demonic being that is there to deceive you? He could put on his “Jesus suit” to say “Here I am.”

Silva: This woman, something is wrong with her mind.

Ankerberg: What was wrong with her mind?

Silva: I wish I knew. I could straighten it out for her, too. But she has the wrong concept. She starts with a negative mental attitude. And people who maintain a negative mental attitude are the ones who are creating problems. People who learn to maintain a positive mental attitude are the ones who solve problems, regardless of what religion they belong to or they believe in God or not. They still solve problems. Now, when you’re researching in the field of the mind, you need to research with a positive mental attitude. You can be the best scientist you can think of and use scientific terminology, scientific equipment, scientific means, and prove that it’s wrong. Use the same scientific means, same terminology, the same whatever equipment, if that scientist maintains a positive mental attitude, he gets different results completely. They are positive for problem solving.

Ankerberg: Okay.

Silva: So this is what we are saying, now. Scientists in the field of the mind find only what they expect to find.

Ankerberg: Okay. Dave, you were on that program as well with Johanna Michaelsen. Talk to two areas. You’ve got “positive/negative” thinking which has also come into the Christian church. But the fact is, you were here with Johanna. Do you think there’s something wrong with her mind?

Hunt: She seemed to be very articulate, very much in control, as they would say, of her thoughts, but which she had placed under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I would say she is a very highly intelligent, articulate person. I don’t see anything wrong with her mind.

Ankerberg: What about this positive mental thinking?

Hunt: Well, I’m kind of a fanatic on that, because I don’t like those words, and I’ll tell you why. They are amoral terms. It sounds like electricity, you know. The real issue is, “Is it true or is it false? Is it biblical or is it not biblical?” And the idea that “positive” is always good and “negative” is always bad goes back to the Garden of Eden where God was very negative, if you want to use that terminology. He said, “There’s a tree in the middle of this garden, and if you eat of it, you’re dead.” [Gen 2:17] And Satan was very positive. He said, “Don’t worry about it. It’s okay. You’re not going to die. In fact, it will make a god out of you.” [Gen. 3:4] And Jesus was very negative, if you use that terminology, in Matthew 16 where He said, “I’m going to Jerusalem and they’re going to kill me.” And Peter was very positive. He said, “Lord, it’s okay. Don’t worry about it. You’ve got to have a bright outlook on life, be optimistic.” And Jesus said, “Get thee behind me, Satan!” [Matt. 16:21-23] The issue is, “Is it true or is it false? Is it from God or is it from Satan?” Not “Is it positive or negative.” I think that’s a smokescreen.

Ankerberg: Okay, George.

DeSau: I have a little difficulty again with David. And I think what I heard John say was that at what point now do we decide who is giving the proper message? As I heard John speak earlier, he was saying that one can be misled by positive acts, positive things happening, being misled by the Devil to essentially bolster the whole thing. If I follow that line of thinking, then I wouldn’t need to sit here and say, “Well, I really need to be a bit concerned about John and Dave because they are into the areas of good deeds and good works. And I’m wondering at this point whether the Devil is asking them to do that,” you see; that kind of rationale without the works. And I heard, you know, as I recall what Jesus said. It says, “By your works you will know them.” Do people get better when they do things? Then I’ve got to believe there is something in me that says I’ve got to believe this is of God and positive in that direction. I cannot exist, I don’t think, in a universe that says, “I’m always being deceived.” Is this the Devil because I’m doing good things? Are we now operating with the Devil? No, that line of thinking is a circular one.

Ankerberg: Okay. I think that you’ve hit it right on the head, George, and the fact is that we better have some bedrock foundation in terms of knowing that we’re not being deceived, okay?

DeSau: Right.

Ankerberg: And, John, let me come to you. You better have some solid reasons why the works that you think are good, you’re not being deceived by the Devil and that your so-called “good works” are actually of the Devil himself, too.

DeSau: Hurray!

Weldon: I think it really all depends on the issue of authority and the Word of God. Is the Bible something that we can understand? Is it something that God has spoken to us in that we can discern, in essence, a systematic theology from in terms of what does please God? What is a good work? What will be something that will bring honor to God or doesn’t? And when you have so many things that are very clearly laid out in Scripture in terms of what is good spiritually and what is bad spiritually, and the fact that Scripture itself teaches repeatedly that all of the good works in the world are not going to save a person from judgment and eternal punishment, that they must believe in Jesus Christ, the issue becomes one that is very, very crucial.

Good deeds are good on a horizontal scale. God recognizes the good that men do. But in terms of a vertical scale, in terms of bringing merit before God, God Himself says, “Even our righteousness is filthy rags.” [Isa. 64:6] The issue is that we can’t be good enough in order to earn our way to heaven, and that’s why Christ had to die.

And so the issue of fruit and what is ultimately a good deed is dependent upon God and what God tells us is a good deed. If it’s done from a right motive, from a loving motive, with the One true God in mind, then it is a good deed. If it’s done, even with a positive motive, but it’s done for a false God or for a false Deity or a demon or whatever, it’s not a good deed. It can be a guise for something that ultimately is spiritually evil. When Jesus said in Matthew 7, “You will know them by their fruits” [Matt. 7:16], He has just finished talking about, “Enter by the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life and few are those that find it.” [Matt. 7:13-14] The natural response is, “Well, why is that so? Why is it that the way is broad to destruction and the way is narrow that leads to life?” He answers it in the very next verse. He says, “Beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.” [Matt. 7:15-16]

Evil by its nature seeks to imitate good, and so there has to be a discernment. The Devil doesn’t walk up to someone and say, “I am Lucifer; I want to damn your soul.” He comes as an angel of light; he comes with good deeds. So there has to be a number of areas, a number of levels, at which we answer this. What ultimately is a good deed? That depends on what God says is a good deed.

Ankerberg: I think I better add, because I can see both of you jumping back and forth. I still don’t think we’ve defined “fruit,” okay? And let me just throw this in as a definition. When I’ve had the Mormons on my program, they will say that “by our fruit you will know that we are the ones telling the truth, that Joseph Smith is the prophet, etc. That we are the true church for God on earth.” When I’ve had the Jehovah’s Witnesses overseers, they will tell me, “By our fruits you will know us.” And the Mormons will call the Jehovah’s Witnesses a cult, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses will call the Mormons a cult. And both of them will talk about their fruit. The Mormons will say, “We’ve got 30,000 missionaries out there. Look at our fruit. We are the truth.” The Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back and say, “Well, if that’s fruit, let me show you. We’ve got a 100,000 missionaries going door to door, so we’re the truth.”

I think we’ve got to define “fruit,” and I think the way you define fruit is what Jesus Himself said, namely, “How do you know the false prophet from the true prophet? Do they obey Me?” [Matt. 7:15-23] The fruit is not just works, doing things, but does their teaching jibe with what Jesus Himself taught, okay? Otherwise, He says, “The man who hears me but does not obey me, he’s the one that’s false.” [John 12:47-50] So I think that fruit has to be defined in terms of, does it jibe not only with the fact that you’re doing stuff—everybody’s doing something—but does that jibe with what Jesus Himself said.” Now, Jose, roll on.

Silva: So we’re doing exactly what He said we should do. First…

Ankerberg: Well, that’s the question.

Silva: …the kingdom of heaven is within you and there, function within God’s righteousness and everything else will be added unto you.

Ankerberg: I would agree that if that’s what Jesus said, then we ought to do it, but the question is, is that what Jesus said?

Silva: That’s what we’re doing, but within ourselves.

Ankerberg: It doesn’t say “within yourself.”

Silva: He said, “Within you.”

Ankerberg: He did not say, “Within you.”

Silva: Oh, didn’t He say that?

Ankerberg: No. That’s not what the verse says.

Silva: Well, what does He… maybe I’m not right on that.

Ankerberg: “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.” [Matt. 6:33] It doesn’t say “within you.”

Silva: I’m quoting the Matthew’s.

Ankerberg: I’m quoting any of the ones you’ve got there.

Silva: I’m quoting Matthew’s.

Ankerberg: That’s the one I’m quoting too.

Silva: And it’s I think chapter 6.

Hunt: Chapter 6. I can quote it for you verbatim. “But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.”

Silva: That’s what I said just now.

Hunt: But the words “within you” are not there, Jose. That’s what he’s saying.

Silva: Well, it says it in Matthew. Matthew says this, okay? Okay, let’s go on. Three more points, to get you thinking, okay? The first thing is, you mentioned something about the Garden of Eden, okay. Now, let’s say this. He said—we have heard this from so many sources—somebody said that somebody said that somebody said that God said to Adam not to eat from a certain tree, right? It was only Adam and Eve there. Who was the witness present that brought us the message that God had said that? Good question for you two. Now, another point….

Ankerberg: Well, let’s answer that one. We’ve got an answer for it.

Weldon: Well, let me answer that one.

Silva: Well, let me keep talking. I’ve got….

Hunt: I object to that.

Silva: I’ve got two other points.

Weldon: The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses, the Pentateuch, and that was under divine inspiration. Moses obviously wasn’t present, but God was, and God inspired what happened without error.

Silva: Alright! You mean to tell me God cannot inspire us any more?

Weldon: There’s no need for God to inspire a written revelation.

Silva: Oh, that’s what you say! We have tremendous needs right now. We have so many troubles right now, so much trouble. We need to solve too many problems.

Hunt: God can inspire us, Jose, but out of your own mouth, let me read it again out of your own pen.

Silva: You say what God can do and He cannot do today.

Hunt: Okay, well, wait a minute. Let’s read it from Jose Silva, Keys to the Kingdom, page 15: “Christ came with the message that we were created to be able to solve our own problems and do not need to turn to a supernatural power to solve them for us.” That’s pretty clear. So you don’t need God, you don’t need to be inspired by God, you don’t need any help from Him. All you’ve got to do is go into your alpha level and look into yourself.

Silva: What we need to do is use what God gave us to use to be able to solve those problems. God gave us two brain hemispheres. We use them both and you are able to do what God told you to do. We’re supposed to solve the problems and not bother God. We were not sent here to put God to work—“God, please do this. God, please do that. My mother’s got a problem” —I mean, we get to do, “God, don’t bother, I’ll take care of myself. I’ll do the work for you. That’s what I’m here for.”

Ankerberg: Okay. Let’s get another question.

Audience: Well, in the book of Judges in the last verse there’s a verse that tells about a time of great turmoil in the nation of Israel. And what the verse says is that in those days there was no king and everyone did what was right in their own eyes. [Judges 21:25] There was a statement made earlier that says that with all the interpretations of the Bible that are around now, that interpreting the Bible literally is arrogance. Then I heard Mr. Silva make the statement several times throughout the program that, “I’m speaking from my own personal concept.” I feel that the height of arrogance, and I wish you would respond to this, is not to speak out of the concepts of God and God’s Word, but to speak out of your own concepts, like the people of Israel that had no king did.

Silva: Well, I don’t say that you have no king or whatever. I’m saying that I’m a product of God, too, like everybody has been. I was sent here by the same system, the same method for the same purpose, and that is to help God with creation, not otherwise. Now, when I’m talking about the Scripture, I’m saying that we are evidently wrongly interpreting the Scriptures, because we’re not going in the right direction. So what then of value has the interpretation been? We should change our interpretation, maybe, and then solve the tremendous problems we are faced with in every nation today, that we are in so much trouble that we don’t even know right now how we’re going to get out of them.

Ankerberg: Okay, David.

Hunt: The problem is not that we need a new interpretation. We need to obey, believe and obey what the Bible says.

Silva: Your interpretation, you see?

Hunt: No, what it says in plain English, Jose.

Silva: Okay, just one more point. Now, how can you solve, or what can you do with your interpretation? How can you help us? You say I’ve got the wrong thing, now. What are you doing with yours to help humanity?

Hunt: Well, Jose, for one thing, we’re leading people to realize that the real problem is in the human heart, that we are sinners, that Christ came to die for us to really deliver us from guilt and to give us a new life, eternal life. And you’re not offering that to anybody.

Silva: Oh, no? We offer them techniques to solve problems! Now you’re like the psychiatrist: “It’s all in your mind.” We don’t tell him how to get it out of his mind.

Hunt: I didn’t say it was in the mind, Jose.

Silva: Well, mine is psychic, you know.

Hunt: Guilt is more real than that.

Silva: You start by mind….

Ankerberg: Let’s get one more question here before we go off the air.

Audience: Throughout the ministry of Jesus, He was encouraging both His disciples and others to do one act repeated, and that was to pray. I haven’t heard a lot about praying tonight. In fact, He said we should pray and meditate without ceasing. [1 Thess. 5:17] And within the Scriptures it said on a couple of occasions that Jesus says, “Whatsoever you desire, believing that you have received it, it shall be done.”[Matt. 21:22; Mark 11:24] I would like Mr. Hunt and Mr. Silva to respond and to give us an interpretation of that Scripture, if they will.

Silva: Go over it once again, please, the Scripture.

Audience: “Whatsoever ye desire, pray, believing you have received it, and it shall be done.” [Mark 11:24]

Hunt: Well, there are two possible interpretations of “believing” or “faith.” I’m afraid most people who call themselves Christians use prayer as a religious technique for getting their own way. They’re trying to believe that what they’re praying for will happen, but Jesus said, “Have faith in God.” [Mark 11:22] And I cannot “believe” that what I’m praying for will happen unless I know it’s God’s will, if my faith is in God, expecting Him to do it. But that’s what we’re leaving out of this whole thing. All we’re doing is going into our level and getting control and we become little gods who can direct our own lives, and that’s contrary to the Word of God.

Ankerberg: Jose.

Silva: Praying is psychic. Praying is the use of mind. Praying is done mentally. Mentally means psychically. So, we’re praying; we’re using psychic system to pray, to visualize—Dave Hunt doesn’t like the term—and imagine what’s to happen, and believe that you already have it and you shall receive it. “Pray, believing that you have received it, and you shall receive it,” as though in a past tense sense. Program it as though it has already taken place, in the world of the mind. For it to be able to happen in the world of physics, everything has to be done first in the world of the mind. If you did not conceive it in the world of the mind, you will never have it in the world of physics.

Hunt: Now, Jose is speaking very confidently, and I like him as an individual and I know he’s very sincere. But he also admits that he may not be right. And I have a copy of the December, I guess, “Happy Holidays” it says, Volume 16, No. 12, 1985, December’s The Silva Method, it’s the official publication of Silva Mind Control International. There’s an article here that says, “How can I be sure I’ve got the right answer at level?” And when you read through it, the bottom line is, you can’t be sure. And it ends up with these words, “Keep practicing.” Now, I would hate to have on my hands the blood of six million people—and I’m sorry, Jose, I don’t want to insult you, but I feel I have to speak very earnestly—six million people to whom I have said, “You don’t need the blood of Jesus Christ, you don’t need the death of Jesus Christ, but all you need to do is go into your levels and there’s no greater problem than your personal problems.” I think you could be leading them astray, and you yourself admit you don’t know. I think you ought to be sure before you induct any more people into this system.

Ankerberg: Jose.

Silva: We’re saying, John, that in case one of our students gets a doubt, there’s a technique he can use to remove the doubt. If they cannot succeed, for whatever reason, they must after programming add at the very last, “May the best thing happen for everybody concerned.” Let God taken over.

Ankerberg: Final word here, John.

Weldon: When I into a similar technique as Silva Mind Control, a form of Eastern meditation, it was nice and it was fun for a while. But it did not really speak to me in terms of answering the deep questions: “Who am I?” “Why am I here?” “Where am I going when I die?” Ultimately it really didn’t answer the things that I was concerned with at an individual level. It did not solve my problems. It did not solve the issues that I felt were important in life. And it wasn’t until I received Christ that those questions were answered and that I’ve had the kind of peace and the joy that I’ve experienced since then.

Ankerberg: Gentlemen, we thank all of you for being with us. And for you as an audience, as well as those of you that have listened and watched the last few weeks, for joining us. And we hope this will be helpful in answering some questions. Good night; God bless you.