A Response to Bill OāReillyās Book āKilling Jesusā ā Part 1 ā Program 3
| October 23, 2013 |
By: Dr. Gary Habermas and Dr. Darrell Bock; ©2013 |
Why did the Romans crucify Jesus? Of what did Pilate judge him to be guilty? Why do historians believe the facts show Jesus really claimed to be the Son of God? |
Contents
Did Jesus Claim to be the Messiah?
- Dr. John Ankerberg: Welcome to our program. Weāre talking about the very controversial Bill OāReillyās book, Killing Jesus, alright. Iām sure that youāve heard about it. And weāre talking with two of the leading New Testament scholars in the world, both of whom Bill OāReilly recommends that we read their books. And today weāre going to talk about the topic in Bill OāReillyās books, one of them: Does the historical evidence show that Jesus claimed that He was the Messiah of God? And what does the word āMessiahā mean? Now, Bill OāReilly is very clear in saying, yeah, Jesus said that He was the Messiah over and over again, and it was one of the reasonās He got killed. Weāre going to talk about why was the word āMessiahā a dangerous word, alright.
- Now, my guests are Dr. Darrell Bock, one of the leading historical Jesus scholars in our country, one of the worldās foremost authorities on the Gospel of Luke and he is Senior Research Professor of New Testament at Dallas Theological Seminary. And then Dr. Gary Habermas, the Distinguished Research Professor and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Theology at Liberty University who has authored, coauthored or edited more than 60 books.
- Darrell, I want to start with you. Take me back to the fact of, how do historians today look at this claim that Jesus said that He was the Messiah? First of all, is there evidence that Jesus said that?
- Dr. Darrell Bock: Well, the key evidence that we have that Jesus made messianic claims actually is tied to the cross. The titulus that went over the cross that established the charge of why Jesus was executed for sedition says, āKing of the Jews.ā So we know He wasnāt crucified merely for claiming to be a prophet, at least as far as Rome was concerned. Now the question is: did Jesus actually take things in this direction? Well, the way Jesus did this more often had to do with the period that He associated Himself with, and then the actions that He performed to show salvation, than Him going around saying, āI am Messiah, I am pretty.ā You know, He actually made those public claims very, very rarely because of the ambiguity of the term āMessiahā itself.
- āMessiahā means anointed one, but the expectation was the Messiah would either be a transcendent figure who would come from beyond; the Messiah would be a military ruler who would crush the Gentile nations; or, if you were at Qumran, the Messiah was one of two Messiahs, along with the priestly Messiah, who would bring the end. Those were the dominant portraits. And none of them had suffering in them. So Jesus didnāt use the term all that widely because of the misunderstanding that it would introduce. He saved the introduction of the term, generally speaking, for the last part of His ministry when He was pressing things. In the meantime, He showed who He was; and by showing who He was He was indicating what He was about.
- Ankerberg: Bill OāReilly has a long passage about John the Baptist, His meeting with Jesus, and then later John being thrown in jail. And he starts doubting what he had said about Jesus: That He was the Messiah, the Lamb of God, that would take away the sin of the world. All this he seems to have doubted. Talk about what the question was that John asked his disciples to go and ask Jesus, and the significance,⦠Unscramble the answer that Jesus gave back to him. Would it have made sense to John?
- Bock: Yeah, when John is doubting he sends messengers to ask Jesus āAre You the one to come or should we expect another?ā I suspect John, being in jail, the fact that you donāt have the evidence of a powerful Messiah whoās going to wipe out the nations, Jesus isnāt building any armies or anything like this, all raised questions in Johnās mind. And so he asks Him, āAre You the one to come, and should we expect another?ā
- Well, interestingly, Jesus doesnāt answer by saying, āYes, Iām the Messiah. You can write it on the dotted line.ā No, what He does, He says, āGo tell John what you see and hear.ā And He goes through a list of events: that lepers are cleansed; that the blind see; that the deaf can hear; that the good news is preached to the poor; those kinds of things. Almost all those statements come out of sections of the book of Isaiah where weāre talking about what the end time period is, what Godās going to do when He delivers in whatās called the eschaton, the last period when the final deliverance is coming. So these are end time period events.
- Now, we tend to think about the end time as future in relationship to us, but what Jesus is saying is, āNo, the end time is associated with Me and My coming.ā In fact, what He did in portraying who He was, was to place Himself in the midst of this period. And Heās saying, āYou can know who I am by the types of things that Iām doing. Iām doing the stuff that comes with end time deliverance. And end time deliverance comes not only with these events, but with the figure who brings them. That makes Me the Messiah.ā Thatās the long form of the answer in which He could have simply said, āYes.ā
- Ankerberg: Gary, weāre going to talk about, do historians and critical scholars believe that Jesus actually did and performed supernatural miracles? Weāre going to do that next week. Right here, though, Jesus says to John, you know, the blind see, the lame are healed, guys that have leprosy,⦠He goes down this list that are all miracles. Isnāt this evidence in itself that they must have been going on? Otherwise it doesnāt make any sense.
- Dr. Gary Habermas: Indeed, they do walk away. They donāt stay there and go, āAnd? And?ā And Jesus also lists raising the dead there. By the way, this is āQ.ā So,ā¦
- Ankerberg: And what is āQā for the people?
- Habermas: āQ,ā again, is the material that Matthew and Luke use thatās not found in Mark. So itās one of, I guess we could presume to say, one of the sources that Luke tells us he had knowledge of in Luke 1:1-4. So itās early. And Jesus is a miracle worker. So until the end of Jesusā life, the predicted death and resurrection, the final scene, the miracles and the exorcisms were, you could argue, the chief events that would point to His words being true. Darrell earlier said letās not just look at His teachings, letās look at His actions. Miracles and exorcisms would have to be right up there, I would say, first in line, as far as His actions that point to Him being somebody special.
- Now, you could say, well, thereās a few other people that claim to have done these things too. Well, first of all, the sources arenāt anything like the sources, if close to and so on, as in the New Testament. And secondly, thatās not the end of the act. Thatās not all there is; thereās more coming for Jesus.
- Ankerberg: Yeah, and for people that are skeptics, one of the reasons you accept this is, first of all, youāve got early source āQā before Mark and Luke. And youāve got the fact of outside attestation in terms of religious and secular writers that are saying Jesus was,⦠Well, you say it.
- Bock: Well, basically what you have is you do have your early sources. You know, Mark and āQā are your earliest sources. And so youāve got early sources. Youāve got outside sources that say Jesus was a magician or Jesus was a sorcerer. Weāre talking about in the mid second century with Justin Martyr in his debate with the Jew Trypho, magician comes up. And the idea of a sorcerer comes up in the Talmud, in the official rabbinic Jewish material. So these are the outside sources. And all of that seems harsh. I mean, itās obviously rejection of Jesus to call Him a magician and a sorcerer. What it concedes is also very, very important: Thereās something going on that needs explanation.
- And so the one category you donāt get is the category critics often raise and that is, it didnāt happen. No, thatās not the way the opponents are dealing with it. The opponents are saying, āYeah, it happened, and weāve got to explain itās coming from somewhere. We donāt think itās coming from a positive source, so weāre going to attribute a negative source to it.ā And so thatās why the miraculous is so important. And, of course, what the miraculous is pointing to, Jesus didnāt heal just to heal. He healed in order to point to what it was about. In fact, I like to call the miracles power points. Heās making points about His power. Heās making points about His authority. And Heās also pointing to what that power points to. So He can cleanse, He can make people hear, He can make people see. And it isnāt just physical hearing and physical seeing; He can make it so people get reconnected to the living God.
- Habermas: In fact, the word āmiracle,ā sign, that particular phrase, thereās a number of New Testament terms, but āsignā means pointer. So miracle doesnāt stand by itself, it points to something beyond itself. And I think the Mark 2 passage we talked about earlier is one of the clearest signs of thisāāso that you may know that the teaching is true,ā and itās a very bombastic one at that, āyouāre sins are forgiven.ā Wow, only God can do that. Stay tuned; now Iāll heal.
- Bock: And that comes in a context, Mark 2 comes in a context in which Jesus has tried to dampen the enthusiasm about miracles, because He knows if He makes miracles the story, people will come to Him for healing. And Heās about much more than that. So the paralytic event actually is a pointer to say, āLook, Iām not just about healing.ā The paralytic drops down in front of Him, He doesnāt say, āIām going to heal you.ā He says, āYour sins are forgiven,ā because His ministry is about the kingdom of God, and itās about sin. Itās not just about healing people.
- Ankerberg: Yeah, I like the fact that youāve got Jesus actually saying it, and Heās talking about the miracles that Heās doing. And the disciples going back to John accept it, so He must have been doing them. Youāve got the religious leaders accusing Him of doing supernatural things, just by Satanās power. Youāve got outside sources that are saying, āYeah, He was known for this.ā Youāve got early texts. I mean, youāve got the whole ball of wax here in terms of answering this question, which is why you think itās pretty solid evidence.
- Bock: Thatās right.
- Habermas: Early alone is special, because there are no miracle workers reported within a generation of whom we have sources, saying they were miracle workers. The best examples are late. Itās a long time later.
- Ankerberg: And weāre going to get into that in the next program. But weāre going to take a break. When we come back I want to take two more things concerning Messiah: what He said in Caesarea Philippi, where He actually seems to ask the guys, āWho do people say that I am?ā And Peter says, āYeah, Youāre the Christ,ā okay, and āYouāre the Messiah.ā And I also want to talk about Jesus, how He answered the question when the Jewish leaders at the end of His life put Him on trial there, what they said about Him, or what He told them in terms of what they asked Him, what His answer was. So weāll talk about this in the context of Messiah. Weāre talking about what else could we advise Bill OāReilly to use in substantiating his case that Jesus did claim that He was the Messiah. Stay tuned. Weāll be back for some more in just a moment.
- Ankerberg: Alright, weāre back. What did you think about Bill OāReillyās book, Killing Jesus? Have you read it yet? Those of you that have, did you notice what he said about the Messiah? He loads up that term so that the Messiah is this powerful figure who is going to come at the end of time, Heās going to gather the nations, the whole nine yards, the most powerful thing that you could say about the Messiah. Thatās part of his definition. And heās saying Jesus claimed to be that. Now, Iād like to have two of the leading scholars in the world here, Dr. Darrell Bock and Dr. Gary Habermasāthat OāReilly has recommended that we read their booksātalk about this word āMessiahā and give us a little bit more of the context of what Heās saying. What does the word mean and how did Jesus use it? How do critical scholars know that Jesus even claimed to be the Messiah, whatever that was?
- And two examples: one is what He said at Caesarea Philippi, and again Iām coming back because you studied this for 10 years with a group of international scholars, okay. And then I want you, in terms of when Jesus is put on trial, or youāve got this kind of hearing about what are the charges that the Jewish leaders could bring against Jesus that they would then bring to Pilate, what Jesus told them about being the Christ. We want to talk about both those things. So first, letās start with Caesarea Philippi. Jesus seems to bait the guys, the disciples, by saying, āWho do men say that I am,ā alright? And then take it from there.
- Bock: Yeah, well the confession takes place in the region of Caesarea Philippi. If you go to Israel today and you look at the sheer rock, youāll see the little niches cut out. This is actually one of the most Greco-Roman locations in Israel. Weāve got temples to the variety of gods here. So the association with Caesarea Philippi as the place where this confession takes place is important. Jesus asked the disciples, āWho do people say I am, or the Son of Man is?ā You get variation in the wording, because Jesus is the Son of Man. And the reply, the initial reply is, āWell, one of the prophets, Jeremiah,ā etc. So you get, Jesus, the populace thinks Youāre one of the prophets. Now prophets are a dime a dozen. There are many different prophets. Thereās been prophets all through time. But weāre into the eschaton now. Weāre into the time when Godās going to deliver.
- So Jesus asks, āWell, who do you say that I am?ā And the answer, in three different Gospels goes this way: in Matthew itās, āYou are the Christ, the Son of the living God.ā And then in Mark itās, āYou are the Christ.ā And in Luke itās, āThe Christ of God.ā Now, if you strip that away and you say, what do all three versions share as the core answer, the answer is āthe Christ.ā Whatās interesting is that Jesus then goes on; and He doesnāt talk about the Christ, He goes on to talk about the Son of Man, that the Son of Man is going to suffer.
- And the importance of the confession is that the disciples recognize that Jesus is the Messiah. Thereās only one Messiah; thereās one eschaton; thereās one time to deliver; thereās one Messiahāmany prophets, one Messiah. But that Messiahās going to be different than what they expect. Heās going to suffer. And so Jesus says in Matthew alone, āOn this rock Iām going to build My church.ā And the point that Heās making is, āWith Messiah as the base, I can talk about who I really am. If you understand that Iām one of a kind and not a dime a dozen, you can understand who I am. But Iāve got to tell you who I really am. And who I really am is not just a powerful delivering figure, although thatās part of what the Messiahās going to be; Iām also going to suffer. And the Son of Manās going to suffer.ā
- And when He starts to talk about that the disciples go, āNo, no, no, no, that canāt work.ā Peter takes Him aside and says, āNo, thatās not who the Messiah is.ā And Jesus says to Peter, not exactly a compliment, āGet behind Me, Satanā ācriterion of embarrassment; you wouldnāt say that to your top leader and make that public unless it really happened. And so we think this all happened. And this is all a chain of events that we can substantiate. So Jesus says Heās one of a kind. Heās the Messiah, in contrast to the prophets. Thatās the core of whatās happening in Caesarea Philippi.
- Ankerberg: So OāReilly would be right in saying that the majority of people, when they heard that word, they would think of the all-powerful figure.
- Bock: Thatās right.
- Ankerberg: And Jesus is the one that is saying thereās more to it than that.
- Bock: Thatās right. And itās more complicated than you think. And it really takes Jesus the entire journey from that point of the confession all the way to the time He gets to Jerusalem to drive home the fact that Heās going to suffer. Even when Heās at the Last Supper Heās driving home the point that Heās going to suffer. And theyāre struggling with it; so much so, that when Heās crucified they think itās over. And, in fact, they donāt discover otherwise until they discover the empty tomb.
- Ankerberg: Alright, and Gary, letās go back to, now Jesus is taken by the religious leaders in Mark 14, and Heās brought in before the Sanhedrin. And the fact is they start asking Him questions. Theyāre hunting for a reason, a crime, that they can accuse Him of and put Him to death. And theyāve got to then take that claim, that crime, and theyāve got to sell it to Pilate over here. And they asked Him the question, you know, under oath, āAre You the Christ [the Messiah], the Son of the Blessed One,ā Son of God. And Jesus said, āI am.ā And then He says, āYou shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with glory, sitting at the right hand of God.ā So what does all of that mean? Now, Heās got Messiah in there, but Heās also got it with some other things.
- Habermas: Yeah, one thing to put it into a little bit of context, I think itās important to see that at that point in the interrogation, just previously a number of witnesses had come. And the text says they were false witnesses. They were making things up. Their stories werenāt hanging together well. And of course the most prominent thing there is āHe said if you pull down the temple Heāll build it up in three days.ā But nothingās sticking. And I think of it as the high priest is saying, āAlright, weāre not doing a really good job yet. Weāve not really brought this argument together.ā And itās almost like he steps up to Jesus and he goes, āYou guys get out of here. Weāve got enough witnesses.ā āItās me and You, mano-a-mano, okay. Iām just going to get this straight. Iām tired of this other stuff, riff, raff. Here it is, Are You the Christ? Read my lips, the Son of the Blessed One?ā And He says, āEgo eimi.ā
- Now, maybe heās sitting there thinking, maybe Caiaphas is sitting there thinking, āWe could go in different directions with this, but Iāve really got, Iāve got Him on the run here. Iāve really gotā¦. Itās a little debate and Iām beating this guy. These other guys lost. Iām getting in there.ā And Jesus just goes on and volunteers: āYes, Iām the Christ; yes, Iām the Messiah; yes, Iām the Son of the Blessed One. And henceforth youāll see the Son of Man coming on the clouds, and seated at the right hand of God.ā So I think Caiaphas gets more than what he wants. Itās like, well, alright, leave it to me. All you guys leave. Iāve got Him cornered here. And Jesus just walks into the trap. And Caiaphas thinks heās got Him.
- Ankerberg: Why does he think he got Him?
- Habermas: Well, I think the blasphemy means not just, āWe got what we want here,ā but I think itās back toāthis is the way I look at itāthis mano-a-mano thing, āRight here, I got Him. I got Him. You guys go out in the countryside and you keep getting slaughtered by Him. Thatās why Iām the high priest and youāre not. Weāre going to solve this deal right here.ā Itās like walking off the set after a debate or something. You know, itās like, āOkay, itās over.ā I think he thought he had Him treed, so to speak; he had Him cornered. He got everything he wanted: Ego eimi to Messiah, and Son of God. But as Jesus unpacks it, Son of Man coming on the clouds, which is used only of God, or the gods, and it means coming in judgment too, we should add, a little bit offensive. But especially, most commentators I think, Darrell among them, most commentators seem to think that the key comment there is āseated at the right hand of God.ā That does not have the ambiguity that some of the rest of them have. Because in 1 Enoch, āseated at the right hand of Godā comes right after, right directly after that is, āThey worshiped Him.ā
- Ankerberg: Darrell.
- Bock: Itās very, very important that they get this right. Theyāre only going to get one case to take to Pilate. If they fail, if they fail in taking this case to Pilate, then the Romans have exonerated Jesus. So their inability to get that charge on the temple nailed down; theyāre nervous. The high priest steps in. And when he gets a confession, āYes, I am the Messiah, the Son of God,ā they can translate that chargeāeven though itās blasphemy to the Jewish leadershipāthey can translate that charge into a political charge that Pilate has to deal with. So the whole sequence makes sense.
- Hereās the other thing thatās the curve ball in the whole deal: the person whose testimony sent Jesus to the cross is Jesus. Thatās how committed He was to going to the cross. Thatās how committed He was to His death. We wouldnāt have gotten there without Jesus speaking up and saying, āI am.ā
- Ankerberg: But with those verses where He said, āIām going to suffer, Iām going to be killed,ā He always included, āand I will rise again on the third day.ā
- Bock: And it says the disciples never got that part; never got that far.
- Ankerberg: And weāre going to talk about that as we go along here, but weāve got: Jesus did claim to be the Son of God; Jesus did claim to be the Messiah. But I want to look at the next question thatās in Bill OāReillyās book: Did Jesus actually perform supernatural miracles while He was living? And how do critical scholars look at the supernatural? How do you interpret the evidence? So, folks, thatās what weāre going to talk about next week. I hope that youāll join us.
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