The Seduction of Christianity ā Program 7
| October 5, 2013 |
By: Johanna Michaelson, Dave Hunt; ©1985 |
Arenāt you missing out if you havenāt had one of these fantastic experiences others have had? Are you limiting yourself and your potential if you donāt seek them out? |
Is That All There Is?
- Ankerberg: Welcome! Welcome to our program tonight. You know, ever since Shirley MacLaine wrote her book, Out on a Limb, as well as some of the popular magazines have picked up some of the stories that she has written, there seems to be a widespread feeling across America that psychic occurrences and miraculous happenings and out-of-body experiences are just kind of passĆ©āthatās just everyday happening, you know. And youāre limited if you havenāt had one of those experiences. And, āHere, let me give you five techniques in how you ought to get one,ā alright? Weāre talking with a lady who went through all of that, and you will see a little bit about her book a little bit later on. Itās called The Beautiful Side of Evil. Johanna Michaelsen is our guest tonight. She is telling us how she came into having her mystical experiences, having a spirit guide that she herself picked out. And, Johanna, letās go back on that story and tell the folks how you got into it, as a college graduate, and all the things that you experienced, the ābeautiful side of evil,ā if you want to call it that.
- Michaelsen: Well, for many, many years, the āforcesā that were aroundāand I was very cognizant of themāmanipulated me at will, and left me wondering if I was losing my mind. I know there are many people who see figures on the side of their bed or hear voices or know whatās going to happen or see bizarre things coming at them in the middle of the night. And they wonder if they are losing their minds or just plain hallucinating. But those things can be very, very real. Iām not saying that every manifestation like that is, but there isā¦.
- Ankerberg: Let stop here and let me say this. We have never done a program like this. Because there are a lot of people who usually watch the program and will say, āAnkerberg, you have flipped right out here to do this program on the supernatural and to come in on the occult this strong.ā Let me tell them the reason that we have done this, so that you can continue, so they donāt think somebody else showed up this week to be the host. The reason weāre doing it is because of the mail you [the audience] have sent in. Enough of you have said that you are involved in these kinds of things that we wanted to hit it head on and talk about it. And we wanted to put a biblical perspective to what weāre talking about. Our guests on the program tonight can do this very well. Johanna, continue.
- Michaelsen: The long and the short of it is that I needed something to give me a sense of control. I didnāt know what that was. And I blundered into a course called Silva Mind Control, which is teaching you how to gain mastery over yourself, over your alpha brainwaves. Through this course we were introduced to counselors. I, being a ChristianāI accepted the Lord as my Savior my freshman year in collegeāasked for Jesus. What better guide can you have? So I eventually wound up considering Him my guru, my spirit guide, the greatest medium from the Seventh Sphere. He was my āJesusā as I imagined Him to be. After all, what difference does it make how you image Him; as long as He is there, youāve got the real One. Thatās what I thought.
- Ankerberg: When you say ācounselorā what did you mean?
- Michaelsen: Well, someone who would be with me at all times; whom I could conjure at will, who would be there to give me information that I could not otherwise obtain.
- Ankerberg: Like in Star Wars?
- Michaelsen: āThe Forceā of Star Wars is much like that, because it was deliberately giving a religious perspective there. And weāre indoctrinating millions of people, and especially the children, into how to deal with these āneutral forces.ā
- Hunt: It would be like Obi-Wan after he died.
- Michaelsen: Thatās right. After he died he came back and he was guiding Lucas; you know, when he said, āIf I die here, Iāll come back in even greater power.ā
- Ankerberg: So thatās the kind of counselor you are talking about.
- Michaelsen: Thatās the kind of counselor we are talking about. Lucas had Obi-Wan Kenobi,ā¦
- Ankerberg: And you picked āJesus.ā
- Michaelsen: Mine was āJesus.ā
- Hunt: And eventually Darth Vader became one of those, too, didnāt he?
- Michaelsen: Thatās right. Eventually Darth Vader did, too. Itāll be fun to see what else comes down that pike.
- Ankerberg: Keep going.
- Michaelsen: But in any case, through these people in Mind Control I met a woman in Mexico City who [was] one of the few genuine psychic surgeons. And, John, she did things that defy description. That most people would say, āLook, Johanna, you had to be hypnotized. Maybe youāre lying. Who knows what ulterior motive you have?ā You know, one book came out from the Christian perspective implying that anybody who sees this kind of thing is lying, or deluded, as another book has recently said. But, John, all I can tell you is I had my hands in it. I was with this woman sometimes from early morning working through, making herbal preparations, grinding up snakes and what-not, visiting with people who had come for spiritual advice and counsel and then for the evening sessions, which is when she did the actual operations. I am the one who set things up.
- Ankerberg: Okay, now, this is a lady about how old?
- Michaelsen: Pachita, at that time, I donāt know; she was in her early to mid-70s. I forget exactly how old at that time.
- Ankerberg: Okay, and she would put herself into a trance?
- Michaelsen: She would sit down in front of this altar. Her peopleā¦.
- Ankerberg: A crucifix on the altar.
- Michaelsen: A crucifix on the altar; the picture of Jesus. She would sit down and take deep breaths, relax, put herself into her own trance state. And the spirit would come and take over. From that point on she was no longer referred to as Pachita, it is now Hermanito, āLittle Brother.ā Full masculine traits.
- Ankerberg: Male figureā¦.
- Michaelsen: Her eyes were tightly shut. I once watched her thread a needle with her eyes tightly shut. I canāt do it with my eyes open! And in that state, she would perform literal physical operations on certain individuals who had been selected over a period of time, who were told they had operations that needed to take place. The patients, for example,⦠Well, let me give you one that took place on a surgeon. There was a medical doctor who was there as her assistant. After the operations, he would stand back and say, āI canāt believe what I saw. It usually takes me hours.ā
- Ankerberg: Fully qualified medical surgeon was down there helping her?
- Michaelsen: An actual medical surgeon. He had his own practice in Mexico City at the time. Pachita/āHermanitoā always had two helpers, a male on one side of the cot and a femaleāfor about 14 months myself, as often as I could get into the cityāassisting. And I would set up the cotton, the implements that were to be usedāprimarily a rusty hunting knife and a pair of scissors. The spirit would come and the operations would commence. The patient would come and stretch out on the cot, bare whatever section of his anatomy needed the operation. The only concession to antiseptics was a bit of cotton that was rubbed on the section; new cotton from a bottle they brought. And, you know, John, what can I tell you? I did not go buy chicken gizzards at the market across the street. She was not putting little bits of mica underneath her fingernails through which superficial cuts were made. I was not hypnotized. I had my eyes open. I stopped counting when I had assisted in over 200 operationsāeverything from inoperable brain tumors to lung transplants, which Andre Puharich, who researched a book on Arigo, another psychic surgeon in Brazil, and other psychics who do research, he said, āSheās probably one of the greatest psychics,ā because he assisted in an operation in which she did an actual transplant.
- Hunt: Let me just jump in and say, Andre Puharich, who brought Uri Geller here also is a brilliant medical scientist with about 60 patents to his credit.
- Michaelsen: Someone not easily deluded, despite what the skeptics would say.
- Ankerberg: Okay. Keep going.
- Michaelsen: I stopped counting at 200 of these operations. John, I had my hands in them. I had blood up to my forearms.
- Ankerberg: Letās tell them what actually you saw. Go ahead.
- Michaelsen: Alright. There was one operation in which I assisted in a lung transplant.
- Ankerberg: What took place?
- Michaelsen: Well, the woman was stretched out on a cot on a sheet that she had brought. The spirit took the pair of scissors, raised them in a salute to whatever force he was raising it, plunged them into the womanās body, cut deeply into the flesh, had me part the cavity to one side. And I could feel the blood pulsing over my hands. Then, Pachita/Hermanitoāso you donāt get confused, the spiritābrought out a dirty red handkerchief with a piece of lung. Sometimes we got the parts from cadavers. She had friends in the morgue in town. Sometimes it was animal parts. Frankly, psychic surgeons will tell you, āIt doesnāt matter what piece youāre using. It really doesnāt.ā But doctors have taken blood samples and verified them to be that of the patients. Something was taking place there. She took this lung, dirty red rag and all, John, and slipped it into the womanās chest cavity, then passed the hand, his hand, over the womanās chest and it closed instantly. Not many people knew that thatās what happened. We bound the woman up in a bandage that she had brought, with cotton underneath, gave her instructions for three days, and the woman was healed. Now, I have documented many operationsā¦.
- Hunt: What was the womanās problem?
- Michaelsen: She had degenerative lung condition. Thatās all we knew. A little boy, who was born dumb, who couldnāt speak, Hermanito opened up his throat, pulled out a hairy rock, materializedāI mean, you donāt walk around with hairy rocks in your throat, right? The spirits materialized this, removed it, and that little boy said his first words, ever! My father was assisting in that operation. The doctor himself that I was telling you about, the surgeon with his practice there, he had a hernia operation. My father was there for this one, too. And he was describing in medical terminology, āYes, I can feel, now, Hermanito. Youāve cut through this layer and that layer. And, yes, youāve reached it; thatās where the pain was.ā I gave him the needle and thread which Hermanito had threaded previously, sewed it up and two hours later the doctor drove himself home, perfectly healed of his hernia. An accountant, who has given me a notarized certificate of his operation, who said, āYes, I had this huge lump there.ā And I had seen it before and he is a personal friend of my familyās. After the operation, the lump was gone.
- Ankerberg: You have documented these things in your book, not in the sense that you had photographs and so on, but you kept a diary while you were going along, just your everyday diary. And I think you ought to tell the people who, after you came to know the Lord and came out of thisāwhich weāre going to tell in a momentāwho it was that encouraged you to go back in that diary and helped you put these things into the book.
- Michaelsen: Well, that was Dr. Walter Martin. I met Dr. Martin in Mexico in 1973 during a Bible conference. I had become a Christian in 1972, in November. And I met him; I told him my story, and he said, about a month or so later, āYou know what? We need to document this. We need to put a book out.ā So, itās because of his instigationā¦.
- Ankerberg: At the Christian Research Institute. Most people in Evangelical Christianity know Dr. Walter Martin. And also, Hal Lindsay encouraged you and actually wrote the foreword to your book after being with you and talking to you and listening and checking with other people. And he actually says that when he first heard it he couldnāt believe it and he had to check around, okay. I just wanted people to hear that, okay. So you were doing all of these things. What was happening in your mind? Because the spirit had told you that you were the one that was going to be picked to take over this psychic surgeonās place when she passed off the scene. That was going to be your job. You were thrilled to be able to have that high honor because you thought you were going to help people, okay? What happened then?
- Michaelsen: Well, I did not become a full trance medium.
- Ankerberg: Why?
- Michaelsen: Thatās an interesting question. I think itās because the Holy Spirit was interfering. There was one night I was assisting in an operation and all of a sudden the spirit looked up with the one flash of hatred I had ever seen on his face toward me and said, āGet her out of here! She needs a limpia, a cleansing!ā And then he mumbled under his breath, āEven though thereās a greater Spirit looking after her.ā And he said it with such venom it startled me. I didnāt know what that meant until in retrospect.
- Ankerberg: And you didnāt know what it meant.
- Michaelsen: Iām sure now it was the Holy Spirit who was protecting His exceedingly dumb child.
- Ankerberg: Why was it that you finally left Mexico City to take a break?
- Michaelsen: Well, the main reason was that I felt I needed to put some distance between myself and the activities that were going on there.
- Ankerberg: Why?
- Michaelsen: Because I wanted to see if maybe in a different location I could be more centered so that I could get in tune with the spirit guides. I could see them; I couldnāt understand why they werenāt taking possession in full trance.
- Ankerberg: So the reason you left was because you had been promised to be this full-fledged trance medium, if you want, and it wasnāt taking place.
- Michaelsen: Yes, and a number of other discrepancies, as well, John. So I went to Switzerland. Well, Switzerland is a ways down. But in any case, let me just get to Switzerland. I decided the best place to get away was England, the Tutankhamen Exhibit was on there. So I went to England, wandered around for two months having very bizarre, frightening experiences. Finally, I went to see my sister in Italy. She was a committed, born again believer at the time. And she said to meā¦.
- Ankerberg: And you were afraid that she was going to talk to you about the Lord, and she did!
- Michaelsen: Well, you know, she sure did. And what she did was exceedingly obnoxious to me at the time. She asked me questions. āJohanna, how do you know that the guides who are coming to you, that the ones you are seeing working through Pachita are the ones they claim to be?ā āWell, itās miraculous!ā āYeah, but how do you know? Is it possible that there are some miracles that are not from God?ā A whole bunch of questions that she asked me.
- Ankerberg: And she was smart enough to say that you could have all the miracles thereāshe believed in the miracles. She just said, āCheck the source.ā
- Michaelsen: Well, yeah.
- Ankerberg: And thatās what bothered you?
- Michaelsen: The question that came to my mind was, āIs it possible that Iām wrong?ā With all the barrage of questions that she asked me about reincarnation, about the cosmic consciousness, about all of these things; yoga, which I was teaching at the time. Basically, what sifted down into my mind was, āIs it possible Iām wrong?ā And I prayed, I said, āLord Jesus, you know more than anything else I want to serve you. I believe that this is what you are: my guru, spirit guide, etc. But if sheās right, if thereās something else, I want to know, and Iām willing to give up all of this Iām involved with if you prove to me youāre right. But you better show me, God.ā
- Ankerberg: So then what happened?
- Michaelsen: I wound up at a place called LāAbri. Dr. Frances Schaffer, one of the great theologians of our age, who has since gone home to be with the Lord, was there. And I had a run-in with him before. I thought he was very narrow-minded, very dogmatic. And Iām afraid I came pretty close to insulting Edith Schaffer. The Lord bless her for her patience. But I told my sister, I said, āKim, look, if one narrow-minded, Bible-thumping dogmatistic evangelist tries to convert me, Iām leaving! I donāt want to put up with that at this Christian center.ā She said, āGo and find out.ā So I went. I spoke to Dr. Os Guinness, the author of The Dust of Death, who was compiling his book at that time. Even he couldnāt get through to me. But I will tell you, more than anything else I wanted know. And I said, āGod, show me.ā
- The long and the short of many experiences and many demonic battles that I had, although I didnāt recognize them as such, was one night when I was on my way to Birdieās chalet. Birdie was one of the counselors with whom I was sharing. Thinking about something totally irrelevant, suddenly, John, out of the literally clear blue sky, this blackness enveloped me and I heard voices whispering in my ear, in my right ear. And a cold chilled breath on the side of my neck; and a presence of evil like Iād never felt. And believe me, I had felt some during my college years; but when I began working with a medium, when I began working with Mind Control, I would simply center myself, call on my good guide, surround myself in the āwhite lightā of Jesus, and these things would leave. I thought I had it made. But here it was, and I couldnāt conjure it away!
- I tried calling on the name of my guide, āJesus.ā āHe canāt help you! Weāre going to kill you!ā the voices shrieked. And I was trying to call on Cuauhtemoc, Pachitaās guide, and they shrieked even louder, and I broke into a panic. I started to run, in the darkness. And suddenly, John, what I can only describe as a fist came through, hit me in the back, pitched me forward. I couldnāt even call on the name of Jesus at this point. But the Lord knew and He rescued me from that. I ran into the counselorās room, Birdie. She said, āWhatās the matter with you?ā I was covered with mud. Took me into a little room to pray for me. I couldnāt even hear her. We were swept up in a giant whirlwind somehow in my mind. Her voice was far away. And suddenly I heard voices to my left, John. There was a little window to my left, kind of where youāre sitting there, Dave, and I could see the faces of demons outside that window shrieking in a rage Iād never experienced before. And you know what?
- Ankerberg: That was the first time you saw what the real faces were.
- Michaelsen: I knew instantly and in a flash, as clearly as I knew anything at all, that these faces were manifesting in response to my wanting to know the truth as the source behind the medium with whom I was working. God took the veil aside, and instead of these āangels of lightā that I was seeing manifested, those true beings were out there shrieking in an indescribable rage. And I knew that that rage was over my potential decision to accept Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Jesus of the Bible as He says He is, instead of as I had subtly come to redefine Him to be. I was using all the terminology of Christianity, but I had redefined it so that you would never recognize it as the Jesus of the Bible if you really pinned me down to it. And I gasped. Birdie look out that window and commanded them to depart in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and they left. And I said, āYou know what? Thatās the Jesus I want to get to know. I donāt have a lot of answers; I still donāt know about reincarnation; I still donāt understand about all these thingsāthe Ouija board and all of thatābut I know one thing: that Jesus had reality, and mine left me hanging in the lurch.ā Thatās the one I wanted to get to know.
- Ankerberg: So how did you get to know the real Jesus?
- Michaelsen: Well, two days later, Os Guinness and Sheila Byrd and I gathered together, and I prayed and accepted Him. And then the battle began. Then I had to go home and face the demons in the house. Then I had to struggle through, āWell, is Mind Control a neutral technique, as, at that point, maybe they thought it was at LāAbri, or is it demonic?ā I went through a long period of struggling. But you know what I said? I said, āIf there is a personal living God, and if He has said something to me in guiding me through this life now, then He said something about the activities I had been involved with.ā
- And I began to look through Scripture and I came across passage after passage that made my blood run cold. For example, the Levitical passages. Well, let me give you Deuteronomy 18 first, where the Lord there, speaking through Moses to the children of Israel, covers the full gamut of occult activity, ranging from superstitions, to fortunetelling, which includes palm reading, astrology, Ouija boards, the I-Ching, the tarot cards, hundreds of different forms of seeking into the future for information, the practices of magic, the practices of mediumship and spiritism. It covers the full gamut of occultism and calls it āabomination.ā [Deut 18:9-12] Evidently, regardless of how sincere you were or not was irrelevant. All of it was labeled āabomination,ā including the mediums and the spiritists and the ones who call up the dead. And I said, āThatās what Iāve been doing!ā Iāve been working with the medium.
- And then in Leviticus, where the Lord gave specific commandments in Leviticus 19:31, for example, where He says, āDo not turn to the mediums or the spiritists. Do not seek them out to be defiled by them,ā and then He gives us the reason for that ānarrow-minded, bigoted statementāāāI am the Lord your God.ā
- Ankerberg: For people who are watching and that their story is exactly your story, and theyāre saying, āJohanna, I canāt go to Switzerland. How do I find the real Jesus? I donāt know if Iām deceived or not, but Iāve got doubts, and I want to know for sure.ā What would you suggest?
- Michaelsen: I would say the first thing is, do you really want to know the truth? The second thing you need to do is find out which Jesus you are following. Is the God of the Bible real? Which Jesus are you talking about? Are you talking about God the Son, Second Person of the Trinity, God Incarnate in human flesh, who lived a sinless life, died upon the cross for the redemption of mankind, for your sins? The One who died in the flesh, who arose in the flesh, who ascended into Heaven? Or are you talking about another āJesus,ā another spirit, another gospel?
- The second thing that you need to look at is, what does the Bible have to say about it? Itās not enough for you to say, āWell, my psychic power has to be from God. Iām using it for good, and, after all, Iām seeing Jesus.ā If the Bible is categorically condemning occult activity, spiritism, witchcraft, necromancy, astrology, etc., in the Scriptures, then Heās not going to turn around in the New Testament and change His mind. So you need to recognize that what you have been practicing is abomination.
- What do you do about that? First of all, you confess it to the Lord. You say, āGod, I confess to you.ā I didnāt know it. I was sincere. I was just joking when I was playing around with the Ouija board when I was four, five and six years old. I didnāt mean it when I was trying to call down spirits and promised to give them myself if they would give me power. I was just joking.ā Guess what? Theyāre not joking. Theyāre not joking. But if you confess it, if you renounce it, which legally shuts the door on Satan, officially turn your back on it and say, āSatan, I renounce you in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. I will no longer have anything to do with this,ā then the Lord has said that He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, to cleanse us. [1 John 1:9]
- Then learn the principles of fighting spiritual warfare. Study the Word. Get involved in a church that understands spiritual warfare, because if youāve been involved in the occult, youāre going to have warfare. Youāre going to come under attack. But know this, āThe Son of God appeared for this purpose: that He might destroy the works of the devil.ā [1 John 3:8] That He might destroy the works of the devil. Thatās what you need to understand. He made a public display of Satan on the cross, it tells us in Colossians 2:15.
- And if you commit your life to this Jesus, if you understand your position in Him, then on the basis of that authority, not your self-esteem, not your positive imaging, not your mental powers, not your latent natural abilities, but on the basis of His shed blood on the cross, you can take authority over those beings and even command them in the name of the Lord Jesus to depart from you, and they will.
- Ankerberg: And also the fact that you are tied to that via your family. Renounce that, and all the tiesā¦.
- Michaelsen: Four ways it comes down. One is through inheritance, alright? āThe sins of the fathers are visited on the children to the third and fourth generation.ā [Ex. 20:5] The second way is by the laying on of hands. I think thatās one reason Scripture tell us, āDonāt lay hands on people too quickly.ā [1 Tim. 5:22] Powerful mediums can transfer their occult abilities to people through the laying on of hands. Another way is through experimentation. And you say, āOh, I wasnāt involved in the occult!ā By which we mean, āI aināt no Satan worshiper!ā I had one young man tell me that. Satan couldnāt care less. He is the ultimate legalist.
- Ankerberg: If you open the door to him, heāll take advantage.
- Michaelsen: If you open the door, heāll take advantage. He is the ultimate legalistāyou know, like the Russians. You may be flying over their territory and you may very sincere, but theyāre still going to shoot you down, right? Theyāve given us ample proof of that. Satan will do the same thing. You trespass on his territory that God has warned you about, and called āabomination,ā and youāre open to it. Didnāt the Lord say to us, āWhen they say to you, consult the mediums who chirp and mutter: should not a people consult their God? should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?ā [Isa. 8:19] And He says, āTo the law and to the testimony: if they donāt speak according to this word, there is no truth in them.ā [Isa. 8:20]
- Ankerberg: Quickly, whatās the fourth one?
- Michaelsen: The fourth one is ādevil subscription,ā as many of the heavy metal rock bands of today are doing. āSatan, we give you our soulānow you give us popularity! You give us money! You give us power!ā And thatās happening today. And our young people are flocking to Satanism now in unprecedentedā¦.
- Ankerberg: And if theyāve done that and theyāve been involved in that, do what?
- Michaelsen: To confess it; to renounce it; to learn how to fight spiritual warfare; to study the Scriptures. Know who and what you are in Christ and to stick to this as close as you can.
- Ankerberg: And invite the real Jesus into your life.
- Michaelsen: And invite the real Jesus to come into your life. Itās not enough to use the name āJesus.ā There is another āJesus,ā another āSpiritā another āGospel.ā [2 Cor. 11:4] In Mexico everybody and his cousinās uncle is named āJesus.ā And I was born and raised there. We had a gardener named āJesus Joseph Mary!ā Try that one on sometime. And you can stand there and call, āOh, Jesus,ā all day long: youāre not going to even get your hedge clipped at that rate. What āJesusā are you calling on? Thatās the key issue.
- Ankerberg: Okay. Join us next week. Weāre going to have questions from the audience on all that youāve heard. Thanks for being with us this week
ok I did quite a bit of searching on Michaelsenās story and she is probably just wrong on her experience
-one person who visited the same psychic claimed she did a brain transplant (basically brought a dead guy back to life, and when do Christians believe psychics have the power to raise the dea
d?)
-another tested the blood and remains from the psychci surgery and it turns out its from animals
-she believed that she inherited magic powers from her aunt who had none and was actually just a performer which just shows she is um out there to say the least.
-she said on page 92 that there was a magic light that allowed her to see everything clearly despite Pachita working in the dark, well other people who visited her said she only worked in total darkness with a few candle lights