When does “the last trump” sound? The Rapture, the Second Coming, or some other time?
Dr. Renald Showers: According to 1 Corinthians 15, “the last trump” will be sounded, and then according to Matthew 24 there will be the sound of a great trumpet when the Lord Jesus comes out of Heaven in His glorious Second Coming. And so some say, “Look, you obviously have a trumpet blown at the Rapture. It’s the trump of God. It’s the last trump. And you obviously have a trump being blown at the Second Coming of Christ after the Tribulation Period, therefore, the Rapture and the Second Coming must take place at the same time. And if it’s the “last” trump at the Rapture, which is what 1 Corinthians 15 says, then this has to be at the Second Coming of Christ. It couldn’t be before because if the Rapture is taking place before the Second Coming and there’s a trumpet there which is supposedly the “last” trump, but then later on, maybe seven-years later, you have a trumpet at the Second Coming of Christ, then how could the trumpet at the Rapture be the last trump when you’ve got a trump supposedly seven-years later at the Second Coming of Christ?
Well, let me point something out to you with regard to this. Even the trumpet that will be blown at the Second Coming of Christ will not be the absolute last trumpet blown here on planet Earth. When you go to Zechariah 14, we are clearly told there that during the Lord’s reign upon the earth—this would be during the future Millennial Reign—that the Feast of Tabernacles is going to be observed every year here on the earth. And we’re told in verse 16, “It shall come to pass that everyone that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. It shall be that whoso shall not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.” And He goes on to indicate that, verse 18, “if the family of Egypt go not up and come not that have no rain, there shall be the plague wherewith the Lord shall smite the heathen that will not come up to keep the feast of tabernacles,” indicating that every year throughout the Thousand Year Reign of Messiah upon the earth the people of the world will be required to observe the Feast of Tabernacles.
Now, when you study what’s involved with the Feast of Tabernacles, you have the blowing of trumpets in the Feast of Tabernacles. This means you will have the blowing of trumpets every year throughout the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. So the trumpet that’s blown at the Second Coming of the Lord will not be the absolute last trumpet that’s blown on planet Earth. Neither can you automatically equate the trumpet at the Rapture with the trumpet of the Second Coming of Christ.
Then, why is the trump of the Rapture called “the last trump”? Well, it’s not indicating the absolute last trump; it’s got another significance to it and there are several possibilities with regard to this. For one thing, it’s interesting that Paul refers to the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15 and in the immediately preceding chapter, 1 Corinthians 14, he refers to the blowing of a trumpet and there he’s referring to a military trumpet. In light of that, it would appear that he has military trumpets in mind when he’s writing 1 Corinthians 15. So it could very well be that when he refers to the last trump which will be blown at the Rapture, he has a military trumpet in mind. What’s the significance of that?
When you study the Roman army and some of the Greek armies and even the Jewish army back in Bible times, when they went into war, they had a “last trump” that would be blown that would tell the fighting men, “Your time of fighting is over. It is time for you to go home and rest.” A “last trump” ended their time in the warfare.
By analogy, the Scriptures teach that Christians today are involved in a spiritual war while they live out their lives in this present age in this present world. When the Rapture takes place and the trumpet is blown at that time, that will be a signal to them that their part in the warfare is over; their fighting in this present age is done in this spiritual war. It is time for them to go home to be with the Lord and rest together with Him in Heaven.
In addition, when you read about the use of trumpets in the military of the ancient world, particularly with the Romans, they had a first trump that signaled when a man was to start his watch on guard duty, but then they had a “last trump” which signaled that his time on guard duty was over and again it was time for him to go home. In other words, before that last trump he’s on watch; he’s watching, watching, watching to be on guard. But when the last trump is sounded, that tells him his watching is done, he can go home.
Scriptures also teach that while Christians are living in the world in this present age, we are to continually be watching, watching, watching and the idea again could be that when the Rapture takes place and that trumpet is sounded, it’s a signal to them, “this is the last trump signaling that your tour of duty on the watch is completed and now it’s time for you to go home.”
So the expression “the last trump” there in 1 Corinthians 15 in conjunction with the Rapture does not mean the absolute last trump in a sequence but it’s tied in apparently with military terminology back in Paul’s day. And the fact that Paul, when he mentions the last trump, doesn’t explain to the Corinthians what he meant by that indicates that they understood what he meant by “the last trump.” And they were very familiar, being part of the Roman empire, with that terminology of “the last trump” signals used for Roman soldiers, whether their fighting is done or their tour of duty on the watch is over for that day. So that would have a tremendous significance to them in light of those military uses of the day.
Very well said Mr. John, thank you for explaining.
I have read this three times and I am still not understanding. How can YOU know for sure your opinion is right. I thought since throughout the Bible it always refers to trumpets or trumpet but when it speaks of the last trumpet 1 Corinthians 15 it says when the last Trump sounds therefore I took it as maybe the present. The bible never refers to the trumps as trumps but TRUMPETS OR TRUMPET only is it spoken as in 1 Corinthian 15 when the last TRUMP sounds. I wondered to myself what the significance was for the way it is written.
There are several layers of truth in God’s Word. At times one Scripture can be interpreted as both literal AND/OR allegorical at different moments in time & can be fulfilled multiple times throughout history. Sometimes that Scripture can take on a completely different meaning depending on the time, & it, too, can be fulfilled multiple times in that new interpretation. The words may not change, but their revelations may. Do not rule out new revelations of the same Scripture by the Holy Spirit!
It refers to the trumpets of revelations there are 7 and the rapture happens at the 7 th trumpet Rev Ch 11 vs 7 – 15
The coming of the LORD, when every eye shall see him and they wich pierced him, and the dead shall be judged happens at the seven trumpet.
God is going to catch up hi church and take to heaven before that.
Revelations 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him:for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready.
Read the whole chapter the church his bride is with him in heaven and comes back to earth with him at his second coming.
YESHUA DOESN’T COME BACK TWICE!!
Butch – Amen!
YESHUA, does come back twice, he come in the clouds at the (Rapture), and the Second Coming to defeat SATIN and destroy the Earth, and make all thing new in the new city call THE NEW JERUSALEM .
Amen At the rapture every eye does’nt see him .So at the rapture he comes for us and after tribulation he comes with us.
The Book of Revelation was not even written yet, the last Trump was something the Church knew about, or Paul would have explained it.
John saw the church in heaven with Jesus, Revelations 19:11-21.
How did the church his bride get to heaven, and when? They come back to earth to rage war..
So you’re saying that Paul could not have a prophetic revelation because John had not written Revelation yet. Paul was filled with revelations! He may be writing to a church but he was referring to end times thousands of years down the road. Just follow the last Trump. Read about the 7th Trump in Revelation, it describes the rapture, we are judged. We receive our rewards. We also receive white garments and of course have the wedding banquet in the heavens while the Bowls of God’s wrath are being poured out. When the 7th bowl is released, we come with Him on the day of the Lord. Track the 7th Trumpet, it’s self-explanatory, no interpretation required.
Can’t be the 7th trumpet of Rev.
The trumpet sounds first and then the resurrection happens!
1 Corinthians 15:52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. “Your” come up hither, is before the 7th trumpet!
They change trump into trumpet in various books like niv amp etc. Kjv has trump: only 1 other time has God named a man King Cyrus b4 he was born in the scripture! 🤔🤔🤔
Yup!! The last Trump! An orange one!!
Aka The Anti-Messiah Donald John Trump Sr Fulfills Every Single One Of The True Characteristics Concerning The Anti-Messiah.
Hmmm, does make one wonder does it not? The last Trump, Donald?, Don JR.?, Baron maybe?
Indeed a pause to reflect methinks. Especially since Yeshua, Joshua, Isah, Son of Jehova, YHWH, YA, JA, Bright Morning Star, The Rock, High Tower, Living Water, Manna, The Good Shepherd, Melchizedek / Melci-Zedek & about 200 other titles / names that He goes by is used to id the savior of ALL human kind. Yes ALL, He is not, never has been retributive whatsoever to any evildoer, or individual guilty of not obeying His Word. He IS Love personified, Grace incomprehensible, The True Vine of which He Grafted in all of his human creation, made in His image. Both creator & husbandman. The One True God.!
You are correct. I believe Trump is aligned with Cyrus in the same connection.
2nd Thessalonians 2-7-11 KJV
….only he who letteth will let, till he be taken out of the way.
REVELATION 12:9-11
he who is taken out of the way is the dragon.
Revelation 13:5-18
The antichrist revealed
The restraining power of The H.S. is removed .
Maybe the last trump is not a trumpet at all maybe it is a man! My family and I were in New York City sightseeing but our final destination was the Inauguration of the 45th President of the United States Donald J. Trump. You can’t visit NY City without visiting Wall Street so we went and as I rounded the corner and seen Federal Hall National Memorial on Wall Street in New York City. And George Washington’s Statue I beheld something very amazing. The Holy Spring came upon me and I prophesied aloud even to my surprise as I pointed to George Washington’s Statue and the building to the right of the Federal Hall National Memorial on Wall Street. I prophesied “The first and The last”. Do you know what building is to the right of Federal Hall? It is one of Trumps buildings and it is so close I don’t think you could fit car between them. The rapture is very close even knocking at the door!!
Monty, I couldn’t agree more with you. The Spirit used your post to speak to me. I had only a piece of information and in reading this tonight you gave me the confirmation. God really has a sense of humor Trump and trumpet?
I believe Trump means Trump, because it’s referring to trumpets through the rest except that. Look what we’re going thru now, they’re doing their best to keep Trump from the white house and exposing the evil that has taken over. I always figured it would either be him or his son or sons. At this point I believe it will be the Trump in the office… Whether Donald J or a decendent, I think he’s God fearing and right now our only hope.
The audience in 1 Corinthians is a populace of Greek converts to Christianity, under Roman law, and the Body of believers there are not necessarily familiar with the Jewish tradition of trumpets to herald holy rituals, festivals and other calls to gather. Instead, the trump referenced here seems to be a term that this audience would be familiar with, that’s used for Roman military purposes, to gather the troops at the end of a battle, alluding to something that the local church members could understand. The book of The Revelation of Jesus Christ was written a few decades after Paul wrote his epistles to the larger Church audience, and not one local community. It is written in allegory to connect the Old Testament prophecies, hence including imagery and historical practices, like the use of trumpets, to the end time events. The use of trumpets in Revelation appear to be literal and sequential from heaven’s perspective, whereas the last trump of 1Corinthians, which Believers may or may not actually hear, seems to be an explanation they could identify with.
It cannot be the last trumpet in revelations because Paul was executed 20 years before revelations was even written so Paul would possibly be referring to a trumpet that was blown to gather people like in exodus the trump sounded to gather everyone at Mt Sinai so to gather everyone for the Rapture. Also the trumpet in Corinthians is blown by God while the trumpet in Revelations is blown by angels for destruction
Jesus said, I will come and receive you unto myself. I don’t believe his sending no angels to gather his bride, that elect is those that turn to the Lord in the great tribulations.
The elect in the Tribulation are different than the church Bride living now and sleeping in Christ. We will be raptured very soon. Then comes the 7 year tribulation likely beginning after the feast of trumpets this September when the UN signs their 7 year climate peace treaty with Israel and many under Antichrist King Charles. At end of tribulation we come back with Jesus to establish His Kingdom in earth for 1000 sabbath rest.
How about the last Trump for president of the US? Bible is full of metaphors and if you really pay attention you pray for wisdom in the words you start seeing things differently and hints of the time. I pray and I believe Trump will win again and expose things that ppl don’t want to believe but have been there all along. I believe Trump is trying for us and I believe he is God fearing, anointed and will do everything in his power to help the people. I don’t believe he would run again if he didn’t feel called to do so, and if he didn’t have a serious message and calling
I am terrified to hear the trumpet during the rapture. I can’t sleep at night because I think I will hear the trumpet and the booming voice of the Lord yelling, “come up hither”. When I hear a train at night I sometimes wake up in sheer terror and I will be shaking. When I was young I came home and all the lights in the neighborhood was out and my parents cars were there and their bed was messed up even their night close were laying on the bed. I went crazy I went outside and screamed up to heaven yelling noooo Im saved why God I’m saved why have you left me behind. I was screaming and crying. A neighbor came running out and my mother behind her they were visiting next door. I completely lost my mind until I saw my mother. Why do I fear this and pictures of Jesus and stories if heaven and hell. I am scared to death. Please help me!
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:21)
I know what you are through. I’ve been there, too. We have been spiritually abused with a doctrine of grace+law mixed up. What really helped me, was the sermons of Joseph Prince. For the first time I understood that I’m really saved. Not by my works, not even a bit. It’s all by his grace.
Get right with the Lord, obey Acts 2:38, Repent and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and he will fill you with the gift of the Holy Ghost,,his Spirit, and you will have a Spirit of Love and of power and of a sound mind, for he has not given us a spirit of fear.
Dear John, I lived in fear of dying and losing my soul for years as a little child until I was an adult. God had been drawing me or trying to get me to surrender my life to him since age five or six. I asked Jesus Jesus to save me on May 1979 when I was 25, and He entered my heart in that same moment, and the fear of death is no longer a part of my life. I felt peace, joy, and love immediately after accepting Christ Jesus in my life. After receiving Him, read each day, pray, and fast at times to maintain a relationship and sensitivity to God’s spirit. When the hustle, bustle of life distracts of from praying, and reading, uncertainty and fear can torment us although we may be saved, but just ask forgiveness, and start back to fellowshipping with God. I hope this helps. God bless you.
John,
Don’t be scared. The enemy tries to disable us with fear (see 2 Tim 1:7(. Trust in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved (Romans 10:9).
When you are afraid, trust in God (read Psalms 56:3).
John if you are saved, then you should have no fear of the Lord. He is your protector. All he asks is to worship him and have faith and trust him. God bless my friend
John,
Know that God has not given us the spirit of fear, but the spirit of power, love, and a sound mind. Fear is from the enemy and torments. As believers we have the mind of Christ. If you have received and believed on Jesus, you have been given divine authority to cast down vain imaginations (fear, doubt, unbelief, etc) and anything seeking to battle your mind. As you get into God’s presence through prayer, worship, and meditation, God will fill you with His joy (the strength of the Lord) and His peace (the presence of the Lord) and sustain you through your attacks of fear.
No the rapture is not to be terrified of but rather a longing for, you see it takes place as scripture tells us “immediately after tribulation of those days, .. .” Matthew 24:29-31 kjv Only thee earth dwellers “mourn” his coming [see vs 30] as they know His wrath is next.
No the rapture is not to be terrified of but rather a longing for, you see it takes place as scripture tells us “immediately after tribulation of those days, .. .” Matthew 24:29-31 kjv Only thee earth dwellers “mourn” his coming [see vs 30] as they know His wrath is next.
He said that when we are afraid we should trust in him. Don’t be afraid of the Lord unless you worship Satan. He is our parent, he loves us so very much he doesn’t want to hurt us or see us hurt but like children we have to learn and he has to allow us to learn and make mistakes but he will not leave us or forsake us. He loves us and is waiting with arms wide open for us to run into. Fear is from satan he wants you to be afraid, he wants you to be confused he is a liar and he will deceive us deeply if we don’t seek God and ask him to be with us. But my aunt told me when I was little and afraid one night to repeat those words, When I am afraid I will trust in thee Lord” over and over … He comes and he takes the fear and he shows you beautiful light. GOD IS LOVE
Gid has not given us a spirit of fear, ( nor for that matter a,spirit of terror). You can renounce it and tell it to leave in the powerful name if Jesus Christ. ( Paul spoke of renouncing the hidden works if darkness- to cleanse ourselves of sin of flesh and spirit.) If you need the help of a pastor filled with the Spirit of God to help you please look around. Jesus said seek and you will find. Never forget where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.
You did good until you got to the part where you used the feast of the tabernacle in the millennial kingdom. The last trumpet which is the rapture, is the last trumpet to sound in this “world”. The Millenial kingdom is not the same world is our world is today. The two are different “worlds”. The millenial kingdom is reigned only by Christ and is considered New and Holy by God. Those trumpets in the New kingdom will be blown in a different world. The Rapture is the last thing to take place in this world before God wipes it out and starts a new.
Drew hits the nail on the head. Here we are in 2021, and the “mystery” is about to be shewn.
Why does God then pour out his judgement on His own body? If you are saved are you not ‘the Body of Christ’, filled with the Holy Spirit? That in itself does not make any sense and goes against what God promises. God doesn’t lie or have need to torture ‘the Bride’ any more unless of course you see this as a personal need? On the first night of the honeymoon, the husband doesn’t say to his wife, sorry I love you with all my heart but I will have to beat you and most likely brand you (ref the Mark) to make things right. It all sounds very Catholic to me. How they refer to the Death of Christ, stating that you will need to go to pergetory to wipe out your sins. Didn’t Jesus die for out sins?
Why are Christians dying today???
Death is a curse from God.
Death will not be defeated until the First Resurrection at His Second Coming.
Something to dwell on = Truth = God never once said “I will pre-trib rapture you.”
HE did say “Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Matt 24:29-31
Peace
Jesus said, if I go away, I will come again and receive you to myself, I don’t believe Jesus sending angels to gather his church, his bride, he said, I will come and receive you unto myself..I believe that’s the tribulation saints that the angels are going to gather.
The elect from the 4-corners are not the same as the First Fruits. 💞
The elect in the tribulation is different than the Church Bride in this age of grace and mercy. We are not appointed to God’s wrath. When we are resurrected/raptured up then since Holy Spirit will no longer be in the earth and no more work can be done, then the angels on the four corners holding back God’s wrath will move and Jesus will begin to open the seals on the scroll and the subsequent judgements. We are almost done here and will not be here for the 7 year tribulation. Even if we are, we are still His forever.
Yes, I agree TimW
No, there is no difference, Anjie. We are all the same. There are not two classes of Christians-only one.
Christians today can and some will go through tribulation and even the great tribulation that is coming as the world becomes Godless.
Some of us will be put to death just as Jesus said as the time draws near for His return.
You are using the words Wrath and Tribulation interchangeably and they are two different words with two different meanings.
OK, here we go.
When Christ returns on the clouds in all of His glory the whole world will see Him, even those that pierced him, this is called the First Resurrection in which the dead in Christ will rise up first, and then those who are alive and remain will be caught up, and be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and we will be with Jesus forever more. This is also the day of the Lords Wrath that will be poured out on the rest of this world who chose not to believe the Lord’s report that Jesus is the Christ, and receive Him as their Lord and Savior.
When we rise up to meet him we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, it doesn’t say that we will disappear in the twinkling an eye.
This is also called the day of the Lord’s Wrath.
He says in the Word that the Church is not subject to the wrath of God.
He also says that at His coming that the rich men and the chief captains and all the rest of them will call out for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them and hide them from His face, because they know that the day of the Lord’s Wrath has come. They will watch us as we are caught up and they will see us being changed, and they will see us as we go on up to be in heaven with Jesus for a while. At that time Jesus will not touch this Earth, that’s how we know when Jesus comes back, He said, if they say He’s in the secret place don’t go there, if they say he’s in the desert place don’t go there, because there will be people that are saying that they are Jesus on this Earth, and we’re not to believe any of them because we know he’s coming on The Cloud of Glory.
Then the Wrath begins to be poured out only after the 144,000 of the Jewish people of the 12th tribes of Israel are sealed, and they are the only people in this whole world at that time who cannot be hurt by the Wrath of God.
The last Trump of God.
I believe the Lord is saying that we are blowing that last Trump now because we are in the end time and the time is coming when Christ will return.
And he tells us that we can know that time by the signs, but we don’t know the day nor the hour, and we are not going to be caught off guard like the rest of the world.
He says that we are to be looking for these things, and so I believe the last Trump is that which were are blowing now, as we warn the world of Christ’s return.
At the Rapture which the Bible calls the First Resurrection, Jesus will not take a step on this Earth, but He will come on the clouds and take us home with him for a while, while His Wrath is being poured out, and then at the end of the Wrath is Armageddon,
And the Bible says Christ comes out of Heaven on His white horse with His army behind Him, and He annihilates those that are left on the earth that had come against him and Jerusalem.
And then the devil is taken and put into the bottomless pit for a thousand years, and the Antichrist and the false prophet are put into the lake of fire.
And then Christ sets up his kingdom in Jerusalem to rule and Reign for a thousand years, and which is a time of peace. And then at the end of a thousand years, Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit and gathers those that would come against Jerusalem, and again God takes and annihilate those people and then the Judgment takes place, and The Book and the books are opened and those whose names are not wrote down in the Lamb’s Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire.
And then at that time theres a new Earth and a new Heaven and the Lamb’s Bride, New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to the new Earth and we are to live there with Christ for all eternity.
JESUS IS LORD
Well Drew you were doing pretty good until that last sentence. As far as sequence is concerned the Rapture first then 7 years later or more ( if your pre trib) the second coming so it can’t take place as the last act of this world. There will be at least 7 Rosh Hashanah festivals that will sound the last trump.
The church is the bride of the Lamb of God, Jesus. The church has to be gone to be with Jesus in order for Jesus army of church saints to return with him to defeat Satan and his armies at the second coming.
Also, he purpose of Daniel’s “70th week” aka Jacob’s trouble” aka the 7 year tribulation is to convince the Jews (with the help of 144000 jewish ordained preachers telling the good news)that Jesus is their messiah with many of them believing and receiving salvation,, the tribulation also deals with the wicked souls on earth.
The Last Trumpet is the last trumpet. The teaching of the secret rapture is a deception that birthed out of the Roman church’s counter reformation teaching of fururism/dispensationalism. It is not what the Bible teaches. I ask that you reconsider your views and begin researching the teachings origins. A study of historisicm will enlighten your eyes my brother. You can also look into the doctrines of the SDA churches interpretation of prophecy, tye Mark of the beast, hell, death, judgement, the millennium, and the second coming
You should look up what the disciples of John the apostle and Paul the apostle taught in the first century, before there was a Roman church. Yup, Rapture, pre-trib.the SDA seems to blame a lot on the Roman church, but that doesn’t mean they are correct.
Yeah… Except for the fact that the apostle Paul thought Jesus would return while he was still alive. So the whole Darby thing from the 1800’s doesn’t really hold any water. Not to mention the original text meaning. Harpazo/rapturo(spelling). The word rapture isn’t in the Bible….but neither is the word Bible.
It’s really hard to explain away a literal and clear truth. You need to go around using unrelated things to justify what is obviously wrong. The word last is not there to confuse and make conflict with other related texts but to emphatically explain more clearly.
The event in 1 Corinthians is the ‘first ressurection’. So you have another resurrection of the just after the tribulation , how can you again explain away?
Please consider to think that your secret rapture theory is alien to the apostolic church teachings. It was only crafted many years after.
Can you please explain the ‘ glorious appearing in Titus 2:13? If with power and great glory how can it be secret?
In 1 Corinthians 1:7 it is said there that we eagerly wait for ‘ the revelation of Jesus Christ.’
Our gathering unto Him is explicitly described in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1. That gathering is the same as in 1Thessalonians 4:17. Where can you find clear text to support a secret gathering of the saints before these clear except from inference?
Exactly who says that the rapture is a secret. Millions of people missing is not a secret. That is a slur made up by detractors. The Rapture was taught in the first century by the disciples of John and Paul. It is prefigured by Lot. It is preached by Paul in Cor and Thess and John to the Philadelphia church in Rev. There is a book called No Fear of the Storm which explains it and it’s references clearly.
I am not saying that you are from the devil. It’s just that we should be careful on our teachings especially when it is between life and death. Why am saying this!
The devil wants confusion. The pretribulation theory tells the saints NOT to care to prepare for any trouble. ‘We will escape it’. But this is wrong. In fact today many are already losing their lives for their faith in Jesus. Yet you are saying that the saints are not to be troubled?
People are losing their lies because of their faith in Christ but they’re losing them to evil forces not God’s Wrath how can you people get this so screwed up when the Bible is so clear we are saved by grace and faith and mercy not works
The great tribulation and trials and tribulations that Christians go through us different. Yes Christians will go through tribulations like Jesus said in His word but we will not go through the great tribulation which is the time of Jacobs’s trouble and God’s wrath on an unbelieving world.
The “theory” of a secret rapture started around 1830 as did numerous false religions. Orthodox teaching for nearly 2000 years agreed that the Second Coming with the Last Trump heard by ALL and the saints would then be taken up to be with the Lord. The rapture theory is another ploy of the evil one to weaken the saints and help put the church at ease(asleep).
The flesh needs a “rapture” because it is weak, cowardly and not taught.
Elder dan that’s some sick theology that you have signed up for
Let me summarize for you and say that Jesus Christ work on the cross was not complete and it is not finished as he said it was so to suggest that we must suffer and die to show our love for Christ is preposterous we are not cowards we are saved by grace and his Mercy
The tribulation is known ad the time of Jacobs’s trouble . This ki the countdown to Daniels’s 70th week. The Lord now deals with Israel. The great tribulation begins and it is a time of God’s wrath on earth. Look and see that God has always removed his people before he rained judgment on the earth. Take a look at Noah, Lot. Look at what God told Abraham read Genesis 18:23-25. The rapture is removing of the saints before God’s wrath. This is not the same as Christians going through trials and tribulations. Yes we may suffer before Christ comes for his church but the great tribulation is God’s wrath on an unbelieving world. You need to research the bible and see that first we meet Christ in the air and then His 2nd coming He comes to earth with his saints to set up His kingdom. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and give you understanding. He is the spirit of truth.
If you’d take the time to study the ancient Jewish wedding your understanding of a catching away of the Bride of Christ ( or rapture of the Church) will change . Jesus said I go to my fathers house to prepare a place for you and if I go I will come again ( and gather you) to that place. So many parts of the puzzle fell into place when I studied this out. I hope it will help you as well. Blessing !
Oh, don’t know where anyone came up with a secret catching away.ITS GOING TO BE LOUD ! Loud Trumpet Blast ! And everyone left on earth will see it and mourn on that day.
This is 100% true. And every prophetic scripture, gospel account by Jesus, NT epistle and The Revelation of Jesus Christ all pint to a time somewhere after the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation period. Thorough study alludes to further into great tribulation period than most of us a comfortable with believing. But we each must search these things out for ourselves, the Word explicitly encourages us to seek out understanding of His full Word revealed, along with the mysteries He reveals through the reading of his Word.
There’s many passages explicitly outlining the timeline, say “after these things … “ / encouraging the patience of the saints to ensure and stay true amidst the trials – ultimately overcoming by the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony (of a Christ), and loving not our lives even unto death. It’s all in there and we should seek for ourselves … it isn’t comfortable but it’s true and it prepares us for endurance, truth faith and allegiance to Christ, and encourages us and others in the hope we have in Him.
The ultimate hope … life eternal in the Spirit “trumps” saving our lives in the flesh. God / Jesus never promised he’d deliver us from trials and tribulations, in fact Jesus said in this we’ll have them. And calls us to lay down our lives, take up our cross, deny ourselves. It all in the Word 🙂
You are incorrect. Study the disciples of John and Paul..Iraneus, Tertulion, Shepherd of Hermès, Cyprian, Ephraim the Syrian. There is nothing secret about the rapture of the church. The disappearance of millions of people would be anything but secret. That is a slur created by people who have a different opinion. The church fathers clearly taught this doctrine for hundreds of years, so you are wrong about the 2000 years of orthodox teaching. You might enjoy reading the words of the disciples of the apostles.
I believe GODALMIGHTY PLACED DONALD TRUMP as President ,The last trump means to me , Donald Trump is the LAST military leader and I think he is the last President of America before Obamanation becomes the Secritary General ie President of the New World Order this seat was given to him from Sean Claude Juncker the seat of the ANTICHRIST ABOMINATION OBAMANATION , WW3 starts and Gab blows his Trumpets to call up the Dead in Christ and those whom are BORN AGAIN THE REAL SAINTS to home in Heaven , John 3 :3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 .
Thank you Karl, for the info on Obama. I wasn’t aware that he was already appointed to that seat. Very good to know!
Karl, I think you need to read your Bible again, last time I checked God frowned upon adultery. And sin is sin, doesn’t matter who you are, I don’t know where you get your information, but I don’t believe God PLACED him there, I believe God allowed him to become President, are you sure you serve God and not the man in office? Regarding Obama, again, you must be privvy to information we ordinary folk don’t get, but since you are on a nickname basis with the Angel Gabriel, (You guys must be best buds, because you call him Gab) I wouldn’t be surprised if you think he hand delivered a special message to you. Personally I believe the Archangel Gabriel has bigger tasks at hand, i.e. following God’s orders. And please learn how to spell, it’s secretary not secritary, how can you convince people of this fable if you can’t even spell. Just my 2 cents.
King David committed adultery. There’s only maybe one, maybe two men in the Bible, aside from Jesus Christ, that have not fallen short of the Glory of God. Please dont start your replies with “I think you need to read your bible” if you dont read yours. Have you read that one verse in the Bible about the plank in your eye????? Well, yeah, be careful of that plank in your eye before you go pointing out a spec in your neighbors. I know that I, personally, have a huge plank in my eye and I also know that Donald Trump is no angel and although I do not agree with everything Karl has typed, I do know that Trump’s name is no coincidence and God has raised many a men throughout time to do certain things – all of which (aside from one or two) were big time sinners. Trump could very well be THE anti-christ. I have no idea. I’m just a spec of dust in the grand scheme of things. But I pray to God for guidance and ask that He keep me and my family safe and I use discernment at every turn, being careful not to be haughty to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We can have a dialogue without acting snobby. I might have started my reply to Karl by asking him why he thinks these things and also, Karen, I really do not think Jesus Christ would want us to be so haughty when someone makes a simple spelling mistake. It is possible for us to be kind.
Remember the anti-Christ is suppose to be charasmatic. He will perform miracles. He is the big deciever.
I know for a fact that President Trump is being used by God for a purpose to do His will. It is so obvious. God has used people throughout history of dispicable character to do His will . That is how He gets our attention and how we know that He is in on it. President Trump is nowhere near as dispicable as some of the other presidents. But, take a look at Saul who became Apostle Paul. He murdered thousands of Christians and fed them to lions. If a mechanic were fixing your car would you care what wrench he used to fix it. It really surprises me that some people don’t get that . Karen, you might want to check into that.
Very well said Lee… I agree, Trump is being used by God!
I believe the last trump is the last Trump term.
I also believe that.
No need to talk down or insult your brother cuz you don’t agree. Doesn’t the HS still lead? Show some love and leave that kind of bickering to the world.
Karl, I think you nailed it…. I too believe that Donald Trump is our last President. I stay so mentally stressed (working on letting it go) sad for the billions of people that will not except Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and King of Kings.
I’m wondering what you’re thinking about now as Biden is President.
satan is truly at work here. I just tried to post a nice long message to everyone about being kind to one another and cannot do so because the beast is telling me that my message contains spam words. Well, I just checked on the internet for what those words can be and the list is enormous. Pretty soon, satan will make it impossible for us to say anything kind to one another here on the net.
I believe in what happened to you. For I have seen some strange evil occurances that happened to me. I know it had to of come from the devil. Whether it was an electric toothbrush that wouldn’t stop turning itself on when I was exhausted or an alarm clock that went off when the alarm was shut off. I also have other bizarre things happen. I notice people getting meaner and lying become more abundant. This world and people are definitely changing. It scares me to think of what will happen next. Hardest thing to do is forgive and love thu enemy! Best to try to be good as you can. Though people try my patience. Pray for goodness. Good to know their are still good people out there. Think what would Jesus do!
For us dispensationalists that are also pre-tribers, is the “Mid-Trib” theology based on this scripture? are they believing that the rapture happens at the mid-point of Tribulation? In other words at the sounding of the “Last Trumpet?”
Possible,
If we consider Israel becoming a country in 1948 the parable of the fig tree, then the generation of year of Jesus return (because it doesn’t say we wouldn’t know the year, would be between 2018 – 2028. If we look at 2028 as the return year the. The tribulation runs from 2021 – 2028, then mid tribulation would be sometime in the middle of 2024.
If trump regains office, his second term ends at the beginning of 2025 but the election is in November of 2024.
Either or, whichever year is trumps last day/year, it coordinates with the end of 2020/beginning of 2021 or mid-end of 2024/beginning of 2025.
We also have to remember, what is described in 1 Corinthians 15 is a different event than Matthew 24. 2 different people speaking, 2 different groups being addressed, 2 different actions of Jesus and 2 different descriptions and the fact that one described coming himself and the other with an army
The t
First trump of the two is donald. Then the last trump, probably seven years later. By last it doesnt mean his last name is trump but that its the last leader of Gods nation before the collapse and rapture. Watch out for the left communistic hordes. It will be soon
I went through all this as well, and what really helped was understanding the difference between Trump of God, and the ‘angelic trumpets of revelation. Not the same. God bless.
I enjoyed reading what you had to say but I believe you entirely missed the obvious. The “Last Trump ” spoken of does have to do with the first resurrection of the righteous (or the catching away of the Church) but just as important is that it’s connected to Gods appointed time,The Feast of Trumpets,not the Feast of Tabernacles.During the the Feast of Trumpets the trumpet or shofar is blown a number of times but the last blast is known as “The Last Trump”. One long continuos blast. There are seven main God appointed feasts. Jesus fulfilled the the first four spring feasts. The next to be fulfilled are the three fall feasts and the first is The Feast of Trumpets. Revelation has no mention of any Last Trump at Jesus’ second coming on the horse with with the multitudes following Him. Matthews account of a loud trump has do with the rapture as he sends his angels out to gather his elect from the whole earth. Jesus is coming in the clouds to rescue His Church Matt 24:30-31, 1Thess 4:14-17, Rev 14:14-16 Notice these vs. have to with Jesus in the clouds gathering his elect.Theses are not his coming to earth as a Warrior/King followed by multitudes with white robs(the saints) as depicted in Rev 19:11-14. I believe if you look up all the other Hebrew names for the Feast of Trumpets you will be amazed and say, how come I never saw this before. Blessings !
The author of 1 Corinthians 15 is not the same author of Matthew 24. 2 different people speaking, 2 different time periods, and 2 different groups addressed. Therefore it’s 2 different events.
Saint Paul is speaking to the corinthians whom are gentiles. Jesus is speaking to his disciples in Matthew 24 whom are Jews.
The rapture is before the 2nd coming of Christ, and is either before the tribulation or before mid tribulation.
In 1 corinthians 15, it’s described as Jesus descending BY HIMSELF, and in Matthew 24 he descends with an army of church and tribulation saints. In 1 Corinthians 15 he doesn’t touch down, in Matthew 24 Jesus touches down on mount olive. 2 different events.
Maybe think about Israel leaving Egyptian slavery. God didn’t really save them until the very end of the Exodus escape. Just when the Egyptian army was about to destroy them at the Red Sea, the Lord parted the water, Israel crossed, and the army was destroyed. This to me is a preview of the final days of man and Israel’s revival. I believe we will all have to suffer through the tribulation, but faithful righteousness believers will be spared. And then at the last trump we will be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52
King James Version
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I’ve poured through Revelation multiple times and cross referenced everything I could, looking for when the rapture is outlined in the scriptures.
The saints are still on earth being martyred for the faith and eternal inheritance with Christ, during the antiChrists reign ,as he deceived many, rolls out the mark – waging war on believers.
This all occurs mid-trib, and after that time those alive are caught up with Jesus, closer to the 7th trumpet, maybe after the 4th?
Jesus clearly stated in the gospels … “after these things … the signs of the son of man … returning in the clouds to raise up the dead and living”
It’s challenging, but really clear thru all the prophetic references, gospels, epistles and Revelation
No rapture. Acts 1:11 and Zechariah 14:4
I think 2024 will be the time of the rapture because Matthew 24 describes the event as an eclipse. You still have 3 and a half years of tribulation before the rapture and the great tribulation or Gods wrath after the rapture. There is an eclipse on April 8, 2024. I guess we will find out.
Mathew 24 gives us a clue about year 2024. So 2024 always sounds like a year to watch but by that time we should see many sings already
All I know is that when the “last trump” sounds I will be out of here, and it will be another 7 years before the last trump of the 7 trumpets of tribulation is blown. To those that did not take the trip with us when the “last trump” sounded, well, we will see you again when the last trump of the 7 trumpets of the tribulation sounds. I’ll be the one riding a white horse with white linens on, but I suspect you will be somewhat distracted at that time to notice little ole me.
What scriptures do you base this belief on?
Who would we rather be, if we are wrong? Someone that believes that the rapture will take place before the tribulation, or someone that wants to stay for the tribulation believing that the rapture happens at its end? That choice is very different if you are asking who you would rather be, if you are wrong.
That is, I say that Christ will come for me before the tribulation. You may say I am wrong, but even if I entertain the possibility that I am wrong, well, I am still fine. I won’t miss anything. I will just repent and adjust my understanding. All is still fine for me. Of course, I am not wrong, Christ will come for his bride before the tribulation and return with us at his second coming after the tribulation. But in this discussion, I am entertaining the possibility I am wrong, and yet, I am still fine if I am wrong. I simply recognize my error and still have time (7 years) to get it right.
But such is not the same for someone that says they are going to stay for the tribulation, arguing as much that they want to stay for the tribulation, going so far as to misinterpret Gods Word to push that idea on others. Of course, I would say such people are wrong, and again, if we entertain the possibility that they are wrong, well, then they are in big trouble. If they are wrong and choose to stay for the tribulation, well, then they missed the train. Unlike me, they won’t have any chance to get right about the rapture and still make the rapture. It will have already happened, and they choose to miss it.
So, even if you are just confused about what the word is saying about Christ coming for his bride, well, it just makes more sense to believe that the rapture will come before the tribulation. If you don’t allow your own interpretations to confuse you then you will realize that the rapture will happen before the tribulation, but even if you are confused, well, it is still just better to hedge your bets. If you are going to get it wrong, then get it wrong with no chance of missing the rapture.
Of course, if you are Saved, then God will still take you with us when he comes for us before the tribulation. So, I am being a bit dramatic above. You can say all you want that you are sure that you will be here for the tribulation, but if you are saved God will take you at the beginning of the tribulation anyway. He won’t leave you even if you are so stubborn about your understanding of the rapture. Getting Salvation correct is much much more important. Get Salvation right, and then when the rapture happens Christ will come for you. It just might be more of a surprise for some of us than for others (though it will be a surprise for everyone). So, believe that the rapture will happen before the tribulation, it is the best way to go.
What if it has got double meaning. Last Trump? Last President? Feels like Trump is going to be last P and then world will be taken over by AC
I believe in God the Father, i believe he sent his only begotten son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins, i believe in the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That is the important thing, pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation raptures is not “really” important in my opinion. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will come when he comes. God the Father knows best.
As for me i have always lived with this: Hope for the best prepare for the worst.
So i put my trust and faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, i will hope to be raptured as soon as possible AND prepare for the possibility that rapture might come on the last trumpet of the great tribulation.
But i was always more inclined to think we would go trough the tribulation ‘the first 3 and a half years, the second 3 and a half years being the wrath of God’ , that we would be there to show the world the strength of believing in God the Father, that we would be protected by God the Father from these tribulations, but we would be there to spread the Word of God. Personally i would be gutted if i was taken up before the tribulations leaving my family behind without me to guide them to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is the only thing that makes me want to be there for tribulation, even if it means my sacrifice, for the chance of my family being saved.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
May God bless you my brothers and sisters in Christ
There is logos (the written words) and there is rhema (the prophetic enlightenment upon the logos). Study what the Lord is saying to His children lately and you will find a weighty consensus because His sheep hear His Voice in greater and greater detail as they listen and commune with Him. I suggest some of the Deep Believer videos on YouTube. Except for those who don’t think the Lord will work with the lost once His believing flock is lifted in a pre-trib rapture, I believe many of you who are unsure about what is coming will be happy to see the Lord is speaking loudly and He is announcing His soon return. The way He said it to me (and Dutch Sheets and another who heard the same thing) the very same day, is that He (Jesus) is already preparing the Wedding Feast Of The Bridegroom and the Bride. He told us three who heard it and the many others that we are to send out the invitation to let all who want to come to the Feast to hurry up and get ready for the announcement will come and will not be long in coming.
All I need to know is when the disciples asked JESUS what would be the signs of thy coming in Matt 24…he first said “let no man deceive you” then he told them all the horrible things we are to expect. If there was a pretrib rapture and we would escape all these things…he would DEFINITELY have told us…”oh don’t worry about those things I just told you about. I am going to plan a secret escape for you” lol. The LAST Trumpet!!! Loud! Dead rise. We meet him in the air! All one event! Heaven and earth renewed! Come Lord Jesus!
I somehow have always known ‘the last trump’ was talking about Trump’s last term, which means he will win for a second time in 2024, and shortly after this comes the rapture. I even had a dream about it.
Please read the scriptures below-they cannot lie.
This thread has really gone South.
Please read this without stopping and search the scriptures given as the Bereans did.
There are NO scriptures that say Christians will NOT go through tribulation-NONE and the scriptures actually say we WILL go through tribulation just as our early brothers and sisters did for we are NO different than them.
If you are a Christian then you are subject to the same horrible tribulation as them, and as the nations become more Godless it will get much worse, especially when the anti-Christ is revealed for he will draw nearly the whole world after him and there will be very, very few Christians left on the earth for many will follow him because of his deceiving signs and miracles.
There is a vast difference between Wrath (greek -orge) and Tribulation (greek-thlipsis) and Temptation, or Testing (greek-peirasmou)
Our early brothers and sisters in Jesus went through horrible tribulation and testing such as being forced to sit down in red hot iron chairs, having their rib cage flayed open and their bones scraped with sharpened clam shells, set on fire while alive and many other horrible atrocities-all in order to try to get them to deny Christ!
What makes YOU think you are any better than them and that God is going to make a distinction between them and you that He is going to save you from that when the scriptures CLEARLY say we WILL go through tribulation just like them????
Someone made the comment that Jesus is not coming back for a tortured bride, well then how do you explain all the torturous acts done to our early brethren–are they not part of the bride of Christ??
Some of us are being tortured and killed now in other nations and it is going to get worse and if you are a Christian you are going to be subject to those same things as the world now is reverting back to the days of Noah, and Sodom and Gomorrah.
We are saved from the Wrath of God which will be poured out on the last day which is the same day we are raptured up, but we are subject to the same tribulation that our early brothers and sisters in Jesus went through–we are NO different!!
We ARE saved from the wrath of God, but NOT tribulation or temptation (testing) as Jesus, Paul, and Peter state in the scriptures.
It is a nice thought, but it is NOT biblical!!
Wrath, Tribulation, and Temptation are all separate words with different meanings and they are spelled differently in greek also!!
The Day that the Wrath of God is poured out is the same day we are raptured up.
This is made clear in 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 which also CLEARLY states that we are NOT gathered to Jesus until AFTER the anti-Christ is revealed and he is destroyed by Jesus’s coming.
Concerning a Pre-Tribulation rapture, that was not believed until Margaret MacDonald in the 1800’s believed she had a vision of Christ coming twice which we never believed for nearly 2,000 years and is not supported by the scriptures unless some one uses ‘eisegeses’ to read into the scriptures what it literally does not say.
The Pre-Trib rapture belief unfortunately became very popular because it was placed in the margins of the Scofield Bible which happened to be the largest selling Bible at that time, but we NEVER believed that until just recently- I believe there was one other Christian before then who briefly espoused it in his writings but then came back to the truth, so the Pre-Trib rapture is new and novel FALSE teaching and was never believed by the Church at large until the 19th century.
Please, please search all this out for yourself and see what the scriptures, history, and the Holy Spirit are saying that what is being told you is true. Please, and stop all this nonsense about Trump!
The last trump is either the last trump at the end of a battle or the last trump of Rosh Hashana which was the last andlongest blast of the Shofar that signaled the end of the Feast of Trumpets.
Please read the scriptures below that clearly show we, as Christians, WILL go through tribulation.
We are no different from our early brothers and sisters in Christ.
As they went through it, so might we and some of us will as the world turns away from the Faith and turns Godlessness and to the anti-Christ.
Peace be with you all. Amen.
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation:
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God
Romans 5:3
And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation works patience;
Romans 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer.
Corinthians-2 1:4
Who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
Thessalonians-1 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Jesus said in John 16:1-4 They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. And they will do these things because they have not known the Father, nor me
It is very clear that Paul is referring to the coming of Christ when he mentions the “last trump(et).” There is only one time that Jesus returns in the end of days (or during the days of tribulation if you prefer) and that is at the 7th Trumpet (the last one). This has nothing to do with the Feast of Tabernacles. Those trumpets will sound indefinitely at every tabernacle during the millennial rule of Christ. There is also no “rapture” or “catching away” at the end of Christ’s millennial rule. This event ONLY happens at the return of Christ. Which means during the times depicted in Revelation.
This also means that ALL Christians alive during that time period will go through the first 6 trumpets and the events that each of those heralds. Then at the 7th, all TRUE Christians are resurrected and go up to meet Yeshua in the sky and then those still living follow in the same way. Then Jesus pours the wrath of God out over the Earth in seven events (referred to sometimes as the bowls or vials of God’s Wrath). Paul also tells us that those who are of Christ are not meant to suffer the wrath of God and that is why the wrath of God is only poured out on the Earth immediately following the 7th (last) trumpet in Revelation. Go read the first 6 trumpets and what they herald on the Earth and prepare yourselves accordingly as if you are alive in that time, you WILL experience those events.
This is why Jesus warns us a couple of times in scripture (especially in Rev.) to be faithful until the VERY END. Because those will not be easy days and you WILL experience hardship and suffering. Believe what you will in this, the choice is yours. It is YOUR responsibility to learn and understand scripture – it is no one else’s fault but your own if another teaches you incorrectly and you accept it – myself included. I am simply sharing what scripture says… how you choose to understand it is up to you.
Well, I know it is President Trump is the last trumpet whether we like it or not and it will sound much louder beginning in 2024 just wait and see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears what the spirit of the churches ⛪️ are telling us here on earth 🌍
My only question was s if there’s to end time resurrections. One unto life the of eternal separation from God. Where does that put the rapture?