When Muslims Meet Jesus/Program 1
| By: Tom Doyle, Kamal Saleem, General William Boykin; ©2013 |
| Kamal Saleem shares his personal testimony of growing up under the influence of radical Islam, his involvement in terrorism as a youth, and how Jesus changed his life through the example of Christians who showed unconditional love. |
A Story of a Life Changed for Christ
John Ankerberg: Welcome to our program. We have three fascinating guests here. We’ve got General Boykin; we’ve got Kamal Saleem; and we’ve got Tom Doyle. And we’re talking about what God is doing in calling people to Himself in a place you wouldn’t think that He would be working. He’s working in the Muslim countries, and He is giving dream experiences, real visions and real experiences of Jesus showing up to Muslims across the world. And we hear very little of this, but we have one man that’s covered this for 18 years, written a bestselling book. And, Tom Doyle, we’re glad that you’re here today. What I want you to do is start us off with what God is doing. And there’s a story I like. It’s called “Twice Converted.” A man that grew up in Jordan, and he was in a nominal Christian church, alright, but there was so much Islam around him that he…; you tell the story.
Tom Doyle: Well, thank you. You know there’s a man named Rashid that lives in Jordan, and he grew up in a very Islamic country. He was nominal Christian, kind of traditional; really didn’t mean much to him. And as he was in high school all of the holidays, of course, are based to the Islamic calendar. He lives in a Muslim country, the leadership believes they’re descendants of Muhammad. Everything in his life was based around the religion of Islam. Even at school he was taught Islamic doctrine. So in high school, even though he was in a Christian family, if someone would have asked him, “What are you, Rashid,” he would have gone, “I’m Muslim.” He just was used to that whole culture and context.
Well, he grows up and he ends up getting in the Jordanian Army, and that’s when he truly does embrace Islam. And he says for him it was not so much about a religion, but it was an identity to him. And that’s what he was looking for. And so he starts to rise in the ranks and becomes quite radical. He hates Israel; he hates the church; he wants to do jihad. He eventually becomes an imam in the army and is leading Muslim men that are in the Jordanian army.
But he’s also a student and he likes to research. And as he starts researching and finding out about the roots of the religion he starts to become very distressed about what he’s reading: about the leadership, what happened with the prophet’s life, the number of wives, the killings. All that just seemed like there was to him, one set of rules for the prophet, one set of rules for everybody else. And he became very disturbed by this, and ended up, after years of being a Muslim, walking away from the faith. Just couldn’t handle it anymore. And he was actually beaten and thrown in jail. He wasn’t converting to anything. He was just saying, “I’m struggling with this.”
So he becomes an atheist. He says, “I tried Christianity; that didn’t work. I tried Islam,” he goes, “I can’t be Jewish. I’m atheist.” So he becomes an atheist and just says, “There’s no god. This is all a joke. This is a bunch of garbage; I don’t believe it.”
Well, he has a sister-in-law, John, that becomes a believer. She comes out of an Islamic background and she starts inviting him to go with her to a church in Jordan. Every week she’s asking him. He says, “I don’t want to go to a church,” and she keeps asking, keeps asking. Finally, after a whole year of asking, she says, “Please, come with me to church once. If you go once and you don’t like it I’ll never bring it up again.” He says, “I’ll go today.” So he goes to church.
What he’d been struggling with mainly in the religion of Islam is the verse where Muhammad says, “I do not know what will happen to me or my followers.” No security whatsoever. And he went, sat, listened in the church. He said immediately he noticed the joy, saw something different there. And the pastor got up and what do you think he was preaching on that day? The security of salvation in Jesus Christ; how to know that you’re saved and headed for heaven when you make that commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. He did that that day.
And we just want to share that with Muslims out there. We hear many times that it takes followers of the religion of Islam several times to hear the gospel clearly before they could really make a decision to follow Christ. He says, Rashid, “I heard it one time clearly and I knew it was the truth. The Holy Spirit was drawing me.” He got discipled, became a pastor. Now he works with former Muslims that come to him on a daily basis telling him about their Jesus dreams, and he shares his faith, shares his story, brings them to the foot of the cross. They receive Jesus. And there’s a great underground church that’s developing through his ministry, not only in Jordan, but really throughout the Middle East.
Ankerberg: Yeah. Fascinating, fascinating stuff. General Boykin, we want to switch hats here. And we’re talking about what God is doing. At the same time we need to talk about what Islam is doing in growing across the world. And we’re going to hear from Kamal Saleem here in a moment about how the Muslim Brotherhood sent him to infiltrate our society and to recruit radicals right here in our own country. And he’s going to tell us how he did that in a moment. But the question I would ask you is, do our leaders, do our people in Congress, do our people in the media, know that we have an enemy within? What is that enemy and how successful are they?
General Boykin: The Muslim Brotherhood came to America probably in the early 60s. Now, there’s been a denial of that by administrations, at least the last three administrations. We now know it’s undeniable, because Mohamed Morsi admitted, once he became president of Egypt, that he and his wife both joined the Muslim Brotherhood while they were in the university here in America. So the Muslim Brotherhood is here. The first organization they set up was the Muslim Student Association, which is how Morsi and his wife came into the Muslim Brotherhood. It’s very powerful. It’s very dangerous and it’s also very ignored by the leadership of our nation. And again, not just the present administration, but two previous administrations have ignored the realities of the Muslim Brotherhood. They are a very powerful entity. They’ve infiltrated our government. They’ve infiltrated our universities and colleges. They’ve infiltrated everything to include some of our churches here in America. Yet no one is willing to deal with the realities of the danger that they present. As you well know, we have found the archives of the Muslim Brotherhood in 2004 in Annandale, Virginia. We’ve seen their plan. We know who their front groups are for the Muslim Brotherhood.
Ankerberg: Because they listed them.
Boykin: Because they listed them. And still today as we look at things like the Boston bombing, and you ask, how could this happen? As we look at Nidal Hasan and say, how could this happen? The reality is it’s happening because the Muslim Brotherhood is influencing these people to do these kinds of things at the same time that our administration, our government, our leaders at all levels, are ignoring it.
Ankerberg: Kamal, you were sent here by the Muslim Brotherhood out of Lebanon, plus with the money from Saudi sheikhs and so on, to come to America to infiltrate, to do civilizational jihad. What is civilizational jihad? What did that mean to you? What were your goals? How did you do it?
Kamal Saleem: A civilization jihad is the Trojan Horse that will come in as a gift and become the destructive force that will destroy the nation that allowed it. It’s called the silent cancer, you know. And when I was overseas and wrote my report in Tora Bora, you know, to the Saudi government, said we cannot win this war. America has stepped in and they have given their life for this battle.
Ankerberg: Talking about the Afghanistan war.
Saleem: The Afghanistan war. So the Saudi report came and they said, well, we need you on the street of USA, United States of America, because the people cannot fight you from within. You know, they’re stronger on the outside, so let’s go on the inside. So they move a radical remnant like me, including several other people, into this nation.
Ankerberg: How’d you get here?
Saleem: We came here as students. You know, we have student visas. We were trained from our childhood in the mosques how to infiltrate American Western civilization; because in our heart of heart they are the great Satan and they must be destroyed, specifically America we’re talking about and Israel is small Satan. So therefore, deception in Islam is acceptable if it’s against your enemy. In the Qur’an it says [Arabic]. That means the Christians and Jews deceive, but Allah has deceived as well; but Allah is the greatest deceiver. He referred to himself. So therefore, we came in a form of deception to be a part of this civilization only to shift the tectonic plates that you know, control this nation from within. Our methodology to come here is number one, it thrive on the Muslims that they are here currently sent to America to study. So therefore, you know, what we’re educating them is we converted them from nominal Muslims to radical Muslims. Because why invent, you know, the wheel and you know, do everything all over, bring terrorists here if you can train them here in the United States of America? So the Muslim Student Association now has a new name, Muslim Student Union. Both of them are the same, but two heads.
Ankerberg: It’s just about on every American university campus.
Saleem: Correct. And their first thing is to recruit American Muslim students in America, to start jihad. Number two is to teach them how to obtain the American citizenship by marrying American women. Why they have to marry American women? Because once they obtain the power, we call sultan in Arabic, and the power is the constitution, then you can take Goliath head by its own sword. That’s what we’re teaching them, you know. Empower yourself and now you can turn against this nation. The third part is to change the ideology of the students in the United States of America and make them radical. To believe in Islam we tell them we worship the same God, but in all truth we lie to them because we know we don’t worship the same god as Muslims. And then to thrive also to recruit professors to indoctrinate them in Islamic theology, Islamic history, Islamic, you know. And now these are the greatest invasion into American universities.
Ankerberg: Well. Yes. Listen to all the money, the grants that have been given to some of our most prestigious universities: $20 million, $10 million, to establish a chair of Islam in some of these universities.
Saleem: And this is number five. This is point number five is we came here to establish Islamic Centers. The uniqueness about the Islamic center, the Ivy League universities, in order to be able to use Chapter 11, which is to write curriculum for the public school in the United States of America, they have to participate in giving curriculum to the Ivy League. So the Islamic Center came providing the finances to speak into the Ivy League to create a new curriculum for the public schools. So invasion of the public school was from there. And from there, you know, there’s a group, their medical organization, doctors that came here in the name of like, there’s a gap in here in the United States of America, at immigration. So they came to the United States of America to fulfill this gap, but this is the infiltration of power, sultan, authority into the United States.
Ankerberg: Alright, hold on. I want to take a break, and when we come back I want to talk about the money that’s coming in from the Saudis and other places in the Muslim world. How is that money being used? What are the organizations that are being founded? Talk about mosques. Who’s controlling the mosques? What I didn’t realize is that there’s an organization set up by the Brotherhood to control the money that comes from overseas. And they own, they have the title deed, on 80, 90% of the mosques in this country; thereby they control who teaches in those mosques and what is taught there. Hang on to your hats, folks, we’re going to be right back. We’ll hear some more from Kamal.
Break
Ankerberg: Alright, we’re back. We’re talking with three distinguished guests. We’re talking with General Boykin; and we’re talking with Kamal Saleem; we’re talking with Tom Doyle; and we’re looking at the enemy within America. We’re talking about the Muslim Brotherhood. And let me just suggest for you a book that I’ve found, “Sharia, the Threat to America: Report of Team B-2.” And this is made up of 19 top security experts, including the former director of the CIA, the former Deputy to the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, the former Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, the former director of the Strategic Defense Initiative, the former Inspector General of the Department of Defense, the former senior consultant to the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a former special agent from the Counterterrorism Division of the FBI, to name just seven of the 19 experts. And what they did is they are talking about the dangers of Sharia. And it’s all documented. And it’s something that you ought to read.
But, Kamal, what I’m coming to is, I want to know, I’ve found that the money that’s coming from overseas actually comes to an organization that’s been established here in America and then they own the title deed on 80-90% of the mosques here in America. Is that true?
Saleem: That is absolutely true. The invasion by Islam to America, what happened is it came by the Wahhabi and the Sufi. When the oil start failing in the Middle East and the crisis that happened with America, you know, in Saudi Arabia, and what happened also in Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser and Sadat, treason against the Muslim Brotherhood. A lot of these Muslim Brotherhood move to Saudi Arabia. So they conquer Saudi Arabia from within and now they are launching war on the West. The Sufi and Wahhabi join power together and now when they came to the United States of America they start taking over the mosques. “If you can’t afford it step out of the way, we’ll take care of it.” And they came in a gentle and peaceful way and later on they will reveal that they are Muslim Brotherhood, that they are Wahhabi and Sufi. So therefore they start taking over the mosques. And little by little they were releasing every imam that were originally in the city, you know, which is nominal, you know, imams. And so therefore the mosque became a place of recruitment, a place of invasion. It’s a place of the established Islamic embassy. You see, the mosque is unlike the church or synagogue. It represents the power of Islam wherever it is. So therefore they launch from those places. This is where everything taught, what they going to do next, and how they going to rally the people. And they speak in unison all together to move and attack the Western civilization from within.
Ankerberg: What was the significance, General Boykin, of them trying to build a mosque next to Ground Zero?
Boykin: It’s important to understand that the mosque has traditionally been a symbol of conquests. It sends a message to the Islamic world. If you look at Jerusalem, for example, where did they build the mosque? On the most holy site for both Jews and Christians. You look at Turkey, where did they build their mosque once they conquered Constantinople? The most holy site. Look at Cordoba in Spain; the most holy site. So in the case of the mosque at Ground Zero it would be a symbol of conquest and it would be a great message for the Islamic world that, in fact, Islam is conquering America.
Ankerberg: Kamal, when I was in Europe I saw Christian church after Christian church bought by Muslims to show their dominance over Christianity. Here in America we’re seeing mosques started and then they buy up all the property around the mosque. Where’s this money coming from? How’s it being funneled? Who are they controlling? And what is the success that they’re experiencing?
Saleem: The success that they have, it’s phenomenal. It’s exceeded their expectation. A lot of the finances are coming from the United States of America, Islamic, you know, people. The Muslim people here in the United States of America, they are financing, you know, the power of jihad, you know, through here, doctors, physicians, scientists, American people, Muslim American, that they are working here. You see, their loyalty is to Islam first before it’s their loyalty to America, because they belong to the nation of Islam. So when we look at all this the money also is coming through the Wahhabi finances through Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia, mainly, and Bahrain. These are the Sunnis; they are trying to stay with their anarchy before they lose it, so they are funding jihad. And we see in all this for the purpose to bring the great Western civilization, the United States down. And when America falls down the whole western world will start collapse and the rise of Islam will take place. But in doing so the mosques that we’re seeing in here, unlike the mosques in the Middle East, the mosques in here in a non-Muslim country, they call [Arabic]. What is [Arabic]? [Arabic] is a conquering place, a place of conquest that we came and we conquered. And when they buy the area and they establish it, they build Islamic centers and Islamic schools. So they establish a little Islamabad in different places. So this is, “We are here.” They are making their presence clear and present.
Ankerberg: What about this thing of control of the Muslim Brotherhood on all of these organizations that are already here? What I found out is they all had to subscribe, they all had to promise they would keep the Muslim Brotherhood code. What is that code?
Saleem: The code is a Muslim code, you know. If you follow Islam clearly you find not just the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda and all of us. At that time when I was part of this we said Allah is our destination. Muhammad is our way. Jihad is our, you know, what we choose and die for [Arabic] dying for the sake of Allah in martyism is our highest call. So therefore, these are the things that the code that they have together that’s unified the Islamists in the United States of America for the destruction of the American civilization from within.
Ankerberg: Next week we’re going to talk about your story of how God started toa change and turned your life around, because you eventually came to Jesus Christ, became one of His followers, and “old things passed away, all things became new.” But, Tom, wrap this up because right here in America God is calling Muslims to Himself. And we as Christians that live here, we need to be aware of what God is doing and even some of the Muslims here are having Jesus dreams. Jesus is showing up and talking to them. You had an experience just recently at a gas station. Tell me about it.
Doyle: Most people think you have to go to the Middle East to reach out to Muslims, but they’re here. Where we lived in Texas, Dallas is the second fastest growing Muslim city in America. And so I was getting gas one day and I was hot, tired. It was really warm in Dallas. And I stuck my card in to get gas and it said must see cashier. So I thought, oh boy, another waste of time. And I walked to the store and handed it to the woman there. And she was probably in her 60’s, white hair. And as soon as I started to talk with her I picked up the accent, realized she was from the Middle East and I said, “Listen, I have a special place in my heart for Muslims. I go to the Middle East a lot. Where are you from?” And she said, “Well, if you go to the Middle East you have to guess.” And I said, “Okay, Egypt?” “No, Saudi Arabia, that’s where I’m from.” And so we got into this kind of talk, and I was telling her about some of the work we were doing.
And finally, she’s just a very sweet woman and just wanted to talk, wanted to engage in conversation. I said, “You know, I wrote a book and I would love to give it to you. It’s something you’ve probably never heard of, but Muslims are having dreams about Jesus. He’s honoring them and visiting them. Could I give you a copy?” And she said, “I’ve been having dreams about Jesus.” And I was just shocked. And as I started to spend some time visiting with her, I found out, John, that she’d been having dreams about Jesus for over 40 years; four decades of dreams about Jesus. And the next day I brought her a book.
And then two days later I needed gas again. I stuck my card in, and by the way, it worked that time. Everything was fine. And I went in to see Sharin and visited with her some more. She loved the book. She was reading some of the passages in the Bible in dreams and visions and said, “You know, all these years I’ve been looking for answers about these Jesus dreams. But I knew two things, number one, that He loved me so much. He loved me with a passion, because I’ve never felt so secure in my life being around Him in these dreams. And then secondly, because of His great love for me I knew He would come for me one day.” And that day she prayed to receive Jesus as her Savior in a gas station in Texas; been searching for the truth for years.
Ankerberg: Folks, all of you that are listening, when you look at a Muslim, what if God has been giving them Jesus dreams? What if Jesus has been appearing and talking to them? Would you take the time to be a representative of Jesus Christ and open yourself up to even find out, and to tell them what Jesus has done for them as Savior and Lord and how they can come into a relationship with Him? Could God use you, either here in America or overseas? I want you to think about that.
Now, next week we’re going to come to the climax of Kamal’s life where God brought Him to Jesus Christ, how a terrorist from overseas had his world completely turned around and changed and his thinking changed by Jesus Christ. It’s a thrilling story. We’re also going to talk about more what the Muslim Brotherhood is doing right here in America, and other experiences of Jesus appearing to people here and overseas, calling them to Himself. So I hope you’ll join us next week.
